tibbytib

Thats why I dont like to post when things get this heated. People begin to loose their cool and start bashing you on viewpoints that havent even been made or suggested. You are taking my comments out of context and attacking me on views that I have not even brought up. Is that the best way you can confront my arguments? Thats very sad.

Here's some food for thought: If Palins daughter just announced that, at 17, she was gay, and wanted to share that with her family and friend, do you think Sarah and McCain would support her the same way, publicly,(gotta get those votes) with unconditional love for her daughter, in the face of controversy of a teenage homosexual? Now thats back on topic, and I'd love to here some "intelligent" remarks made on this one single scenario that is relative to my arguments, or should we start making up what I might think.....


EDIT: LOL!!! I suppose I am off topic now!!! owned.gif myself!! In regards to the Palin/ McCain, you know, I think it is a bad choice. I think tactically, trying to get renegade Hillary supporters is very transparent and the swing voters will see it as that. I am a swing voter and thats exactly how I see it. Nuff said.

REDZMAN

Tom

First off my Denver brother, my beliefs are for anything BUT religious. You should know that my man. None of what I've said is religiously motivated, it's from life and worldly experience. Seeing my family and others torn apart by divorce, and married on whims, I treat mine as it should be, with honor and respect.

Why can't others honor what's ALWAYS been?



You would. Panzy. LOL




Sorry bro, I said that no one is born gay. No one is. You know as well as I that for every study that says one thing, there's a study that says the opposite. THe truth is somewhere in between.



Right. But a doctor or parent picking the wrong sex for their child is called a mistake, it's still not being born gay. And are these (hermaphrodite mistake) folks really gay anyways, or are they just going along with what their hormones were supposed to be developing into anyways?



Not really that way at all Tom. Those that have the issues you stated are born with them, genetic defects or otherwise. They are that way from birth. Sexuality and the PERSONAL choices related to it don't begin until 8 to 15 years old, when the hormones to develop you as such kick in. That's when the choices can begin.




Agreed. That's like citing 3rd party rumors as fact. Most colleges or universities will tell you at the beginning not to use it as a source, but to use it as a source for SOURCES (I often find sources by looking at the bibliography information on a wiki page). I've got a LOT of teachers/professors, ect, that will fail your assignment if you use Wiki as a source.




Because that's what real Americans do, defend their beliefs and fight for them.



EXACTLY! So add a new tradition and value, don't take away from one that's there. Give them civil unions, tax the shit out of them like everyone else, and move on! Why should I have to share something that is rightfully mine because you chose to be different and suddenly want to be treated the same?




Sure seems like it.

Tom, I don't think there'd be any major issues with it if she had a gay daughter or something, isn't one of Dick Cheney's daughters gay?

majik

Who are you directing that towards? I haven't attacked you on anything. I'm trying to understand your argument... it really wasn't stated well and I'm not sure what you're defending.

hm... I think most parents would have unconditional love for a son/daughter even if they were gay. I don't know how Sarah Palin would act differently being a politician in the public spotlight, but anything I say would be merely speculation on a situation that doesn't exist.

I thought it was a horrible move, and absolutely a way to get the Hillary voters... but the more I found out about Palin, the more I wish she was the Presidential candidate rather than just the VP. I was totally against it at the beginning, until I found out who she was and what she stood for. Now I'm in full support.

And no, it's no off-topic. The discussion has led us to many different talking points but still seems focused around the same thing. It's a good discussion in my eyes.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding Palin's daughter:
I really liked what Barack Obama said earlier today (paraphrased by CNN):
"I myself was the child of a teenage mother, and I ask the media to leave the family's private matters out of the spotlight and focus on the major issues."

I hadn't thought about that... it'd be hard for the democrats to capitalize on Palin's situation when you look at the similarity of Obama's childhood. Kudos to Obama.

Whiplash

Aren't there any other parties to choose from besides the republicans and democrats? Why does the media only cover these two?

GeneralPatton

I find it funny he picked her, come on. There were many other candidates he could've/should've chosen, and I like how her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. Amazing.

I am voting Barack Obama, I have liked him since I was back in the beginning of Senior Year in High School (Now 2nd year of College)

We all have our opinions, and just like every other supporter of McCain or Obama, nobody on a forum or a VP is going to change who we support. It's definitely going to be a good run this year, regardless who becomes president, I believe firmly they will do a much better job than Bush did, so as much as I want Obama to win, either way its a Win-Win in my book.

majik

The other parties have ideas that are far from the mainstream. Some have very good ideas, but often times have very weird ideas mixed in with them.

Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, and now Ron Paul.

Glad to have you in the discussion Patton. You seem to have been an Obama supporter since he entered the federal Government. For what reasons is he appealing to you? Give us more discussion mang

tibbytib

Jer - I really do think we see this issue from the same side of the street. I suppose my only argument is why not give gays and lesbians equal rights as any other "married" couple, regardless if they could "change" themselves. Even if there is no such thing as being born gay, (and I do agree that most gay people do have some kind of hardship in their younger years to trigger this), and you say their problem is simply a chosen one, then how exactly are they different then other people with differing social problems that still get all or their rights as a US citizen, even if they choose not to correct their "social" problem? Just because you think its gross and doesnt coincide with your beliefs, should they suffer giving up their rights to appease you? I dont agree with people who are sexually obsessed. Does that mean if you are a swinger and believe in that and practice that in your life, that your right to marry should be denied because you are monogamously challenged and a majority feels that you dont deserve the same rights as them simply because you are different?

Do they deserve more rights? Absolutely not. Do they deserve to be treated better than any other citizen. Never. But they do deserve to be treated with the same integrity that every other minority citizen has.

I think its very simple. Its no different then the civil rights movement in the 60's or the fight for womens right to vote. Ask yourself this: Do all US citizens share certain in-alienable rights? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Are homosexuals considered citizens? Then they deserve the right of every other US citizen: to pursue life, liberty , and happiness. Any denial of these rights is a blasphemy as to what this country was founded on: minorities. How soon we all forget that we are all a hodge-podge of different heritage and ways of life, pilgrimaging here to start a new life in a land where we could all be accepted. Its hypocritical to deny these people these rights, however we may agree or disagree with their way of life.

Majik - Agreed man. I hope I made my point more clear in this post. Thanks for calling me out on it. fing02.gif

Tibbychick

I can see how Nobama is appealing to the younger generation. But he doesn't ignite the spark in me the way Hillary does. Listening to Nobama I tend to lose interest after the first couple of minutes, whereas with Hillary I hang on her every word, she has such passion and vigor when she speaks.

What I find kind of disturbing is that McSame forgot how many houses he owns.

Role Reversal

I don't, when purchasing homes as a form of investing on such a large scale happens, I can see how it would be easy to lose track of which you still own and which you have sold recently. It was a very profitable way to make money up until two years ago by turning houses. I will not fault someone on trying to make money and losing track of the amount purchased or sold until they look at the papers. I bet he hasn't set foot in a good majority of the homes he owns. If I had the money to invest in realestate I sure as hell would. People are always going to need somewhere to live.

majik

that's like asking my mother (realtor) how many homes she has on the market. It's usually between 5-7 but varies with each week.

I doubt McCain is the sole person running the house-flipping business. He probably plays the part of the investor, putting up the money, and has someone deal with the day-to-day activities.

tibbytib - I'm still not sure which rights you feel we should give homosexuals? Maybe that would help progress this discussion further. If you were a homosexual, and we told you "You can have a 'civil union' but not a 'marriage ceremony'" then which rights of marriage would you expect to be granted?

One of the biggest changes I've seen after getting married is the 'marriage tax' or 'marriage penalty' where you hit a higher tax bracket faster because of combined income. That isn't one of the things homosexuals would be battling for, so please tell me what is? Where does your argument root from? What are we keeping them from?

They aren't recognized by the government as being "married" ... big deal.