Who Is Sarah Palin?
08-31-2008, 09:57 PM
#52
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QUOTE (tibbytib @ Aug 31 2008, 10:06 PM)
Your first statement says that you dont believe that some people are simply born gay. That they choose to be gay, resulting from bad experiences from their past. There are COUNTLESS studies of children ranging from 4 to 8 year olds who show signs of being sexually confused. The studies have full investigations of the parental upbringing resulting in negative results, and, there is by no means a rational explanation to why the child acts out of there sexual orientation.
I wouldn't expect 4 to 8 year olds to be sexually confident, or for an 8 year old girl to CARE what a penis is, or what to do with it, or how to feel when she is shown a picture of a penis. I don't understand your statement at all. I don't think I was turned on by breasts when I was 6 years old, maybe that makes me weird? QUOTE (tibbytib @ Aug 31 2008, 10:06 PM)
The idea that someone is not born gay is like saying someone with autism or mental handicaps simply chose to be "stupid" or "slow" or"retarded".
So, in your comments, are you saying that homosexuality is a disease or disorder? QUOTE (tibbytib @ Aug 31 2008, 10:06 PM)
The exact same can happen with the outcome of a persons sexual orientation. I do believe that the natural order of things is that a male and female is natural, where as same sex attraction is not a natural occurence.
So... now a "Sex attraction is NOT a natural occurrence", meaning you don't NATURALLY become gay? As is... you aren't born gay? QUOTE (tibbytib @ Aug 31 2008, 10:06 PM)
But, I do believe that these people should get the same kind of rights that normal married (I would prefer to call it something different, unified couples) couples get. The same kind of benefits financially and tax wise, etc...
Should we apply higher taxes the same as a married couple? Offer insurance to two men who aren't married but have a bond? We don't do that with people who are male/female and decide not to marry for tax purposes (i've known those people). What rights should we provide them? What rights should we not? What detriment should they receive? How should we change out laws and system to accommodate their unnatural decisions? QUOTE (tibbytib @ Aug 31 2008, 10:06 PM)
Now, the idea that it should be called something different than marriage I agree with simply because it would solve much of the bickering towards this subject. We are at a time in society where church and state needs to be more and more seperate to be more and more fair and just to different people from different walks of life. Their ability to qualify for the same and equal rights as other couples that live together should be available hands down. If they want a "Marraige" certificate from a unified church body stating that not only the state approves, but God also approves, then let the churches deal with that on their own.
You don't have to go to a church to be married, nor a preacher/pastor. You can go to a court. Church doesn't have much to do with marriage anymore, not sure where your separation of church and state makes any difference in this argument. FYI, atheists can get married. I've personally only known one gay man who claimed he was born that way and he had to either act on it, or stay alone the rest of his life. He told me he would "never choose to be different, to be gay and be the focus of negative attention." (paraphrased)
That man also told me that he was abused as a child, sexually by his father.
here's a serious question that I don't know the answer to. Humans are one of the smartest animals alive, with their ability to reason and 'do' things with their hands. Is there any other mammal that has homosexual tendencies? I mean, as humans, we can find a way for homosexuals to procreate (kind of) through test tubes. Whales can't do that... badgers can't do that... beavers can't do that (pardon the pun)... hippopotamuses can't do that... Humans in their creativity and ability to reason seem to have messed everything up.
09-01-2008, 04:50 AM
#54
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i disagree with marriage altogether.
i feel that your trying to legalfy (if thats a word) love. which i feel is wrong. i love you this much therefore lets make it law. especially since its an emotion and emotions change.
i feel that your trying to legalfy (if thats a word) love. which i feel is wrong. i love you this much therefore lets make it law. especially since its an emotion and emotions change.
09-01-2008, 06:49 AM
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Just a little counter to majik's animals argument - yes, homosexual procreation is not possible (duh), but homosexual tendencies? You should check these out lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual...sexual_behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anima...sexual_behavior
There is some pretty interesting stuff in this world.
"An estimated one-quarter of all black swans pairings are homosexual and they steal nests, or form temporary threesomes with females to obtain eggs, driving away the female after she lays the eggs.[24] More of their cygnets survive to adulthood than those of different-sex pairs possibly due to their superior ability to defend large portions of land."
There is even a species (Bonobo) in which all males are bisexual!
And, if this didn't make your day, "Amazon River Dolphins perform homosexual penetration of the blowhole, the only known example of nasal sex.[62][63]" lmao.gif
I personally don't think this is very relevant to the same-sex marriage argument though, more of an FYI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual...sexual_behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anima...sexual_behavior
There is some pretty interesting stuff in this world.
"An estimated one-quarter of all black swans pairings are homosexual and they steal nests, or form temporary threesomes with females to obtain eggs, driving away the female after she lays the eggs.[24] More of their cygnets survive to adulthood than those of different-sex pairs possibly due to their superior ability to defend large portions of land."
There is even a species (Bonobo) in which all males are bisexual!
And, if this didn't make your day, "Amazon River Dolphins perform homosexual penetration of the blowhole, the only known example of nasal sex.[62][63]" lmao.gif
I personally don't think this is very relevant to the same-sex marriage argument though, more of an FYI
09-01-2008, 09:59 AM
#56
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^^^ i'm sorry i haven't read any of your links, but using wikipedia as a source is dumb. i'm not saying you are dumb. Anyone with internet connection can alter those pages. When I worked from 11pm-7am for a couple of years when i was tired and bored i would alter those pages, so using them as a sources is kinda... can't find a tactful word right now so i will leave it at that.
As for 4-8 year olds having homosexual tendancies. They lack the chemicals in their body to have sex drive at that age. All the supporting scientific facts are there to prove why young children show those tendacies. As well as comfort... they are trying to figure out the world (the big scary place it is) and noticed that little boy has all the same parts as him or the little girl notices the other little girl is missing the same parts as she is. That what is different or out of the ordinary scares children, they like being comfortable. When i was around the age 4 my friend and I got naked and investigated eachother. There was no sexual drive in my touching or looking, it was curiosity. Once my body began to release testosterone and the other required chemicals I never looked back, GIRLS are my world. Did you know at roughly the same age young men have incestrial tendacies towards their mothers. Does that mean we need to make incestrial relationships legal (Tom or anyone for that matter don't take offense to last sentence just me being me, a smart ass.)
As for 4-8 year olds having homosexual tendancies. They lack the chemicals in their body to have sex drive at that age. All the supporting scientific facts are there to prove why young children show those tendacies. As well as comfort... they are trying to figure out the world (the big scary place it is) and noticed that little boy has all the same parts as him or the little girl notices the other little girl is missing the same parts as she is. That what is different or out of the ordinary scares children, they like being comfortable. When i was around the age 4 my friend and I got naked and investigated eachother. There was no sexual drive in my touching or looking, it was curiosity. Once my body began to release testosterone and the other required chemicals I never looked back, GIRLS are my world. Did you know at roughly the same age young men have incestrial tendacies towards their mothers. Does that mean we need to make incestrial relationships legal (Tom or anyone for that matter don't take offense to last sentence just me being me, a smart ass.)
09-01-2008, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE
As for what's my business or not? GO serve some time in the military, then you can tell me what is or isn't my business.
But why do you care what someone else does with their life? Does it really effect your own that much?
This is 2008, not 1908. I'm not saying traditions and values should go out the window, but they need to adapt for changing times, as they have been over the past few decades (ie: it was always tradition to have slaves and for women to not work/vote, but that's all changed over time, right?)
QUOTE
Oh, that's right, you're canadian now right?
Yeah, because the minute I received my permanent residency (the equivalent of a US Green Card), I became a Canadian citizen. Right.
In reality, I have to live here for 5 years and take a test before I receive citizenship. And even then I will still keep my US citizenship. Just because I disagree with how the country is being run doesn't mean I hate the country. In fact I have many criticisms of Canada and how things are done here as well. Some things are spot on here, others are backwards. But then again it's more on a provincial and local level the things I have issues with.
09-01-2008, 10:52 AM
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QUOTE (Tibbychick @ Sep 1 2008, 11:14 AM)
But why do you care what someone else does with their life? Does it really effect your own that much?
so... we should change our laws because a small percentage of the population, 90% of which is located in San Fransisco, chooses to be different? They can do whatever they want, I really don't care, and it really doesn't bother me. Changing our laws to adjust to a minority that wants to be different... that's what I have a problem with.
09-01-2008, 11:06 AM
#59
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LOL! No offense taken AJ. fing02.gif fing02.gif
Majik - I suppose in a way, I do see homosexuals as being an abnormality. I do not imply that that is a NEGATIVE thing, so please don't hold me to that. It is an abnormality amongst the norm. Thats all. the argument can be made by either side that they were destined or made to be that way by god. The words I use simply classify them amongst the millions of people who are born "normal". Do they deserve the same rights as a "normal" couple, absolutely. Do they deserve to be accepted by church, religion? Thats up to the powers that be. Do they deserve love and acceptance from God? I dont believe anyone, even the Pope, can answer that question.
As Far as you not having to go to a church to get married, you totally miss my point. Its the semantics that gets people riled up. The separation that I am proposing has to do more with the vocabulary. Yes, your correct, many things will have to be worked out. But to answer you directly, yes, I do feel they deserve the same rights as "married" couples get. Simply call it something else to make it more acceptable on both sides. Those kinds of rights should be just as available as your driving rights, your rights to arms, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc...
Majik - I suppose in a way, I do see homosexuals as being an abnormality. I do not imply that that is a NEGATIVE thing, so please don't hold me to that. It is an abnormality amongst the norm. Thats all. the argument can be made by either side that they were destined or made to be that way by god. The words I use simply classify them amongst the millions of people who are born "normal". Do they deserve the same rights as a "normal" couple, absolutely. Do they deserve to be accepted by church, religion? Thats up to the powers that be. Do they deserve love and acceptance from God? I dont believe anyone, even the Pope, can answer that question.
As Far as you not having to go to a church to get married, you totally miss my point. Its the semantics that gets people riled up. The separation that I am proposing has to do more with the vocabulary. Yes, your correct, many things will have to be worked out. But to answer you directly, yes, I do feel they deserve the same rights as "married" couples get. Simply call it something else to make it more acceptable on both sides. Those kinds of rights should be just as available as your driving rights, your rights to arms, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc...
09-01-2008, 11:34 AM
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Which rights do you wish to be given to homosexuals?
Do we need to ban hunting and fishing because PETA says so? Stop eating meat because PETA says so? Are you aware PETA has over 2 million members?
Do we need to remove everything Christian about our country's past, foundation, and tradition because we have atheists?
Do we need to urge California to secede from the union because they cause more problems than any other state?
Do we need to make Spanish a secondary language in the U.S. because we have so many illegals that don't speak English?
bending over backwards for the minority... yeah, that's a good idea.
ON ANOTHER SUBJECT......
Sarah Palin's 17 year old daughter is pregnant.
I guess that trashes rumors that the 4 month old child Sarah Palin just had is really her daughter's child.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...01/1318541.aspx
From NBC's Mark Murray
Reuters: "The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.
Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said. 'We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us,' the Palins' statement said. 'Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support,' the Palins said."
*** UPDATE *** Here's a statement the McCain camp released from Todd and Sarah Palin, which is identical to the quote in the Reuters story: "We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us. Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support."
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media to respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth, Palin broke the story herself.
Do we need to ban hunting and fishing because PETA says so? Stop eating meat because PETA says so? Are you aware PETA has over 2 million members?
Do we need to remove everything Christian about our country's past, foundation, and tradition because we have atheists?
Do we need to urge California to secede from the union because they cause more problems than any other state?
Do we need to make Spanish a secondary language in the U.S. because we have so many illegals that don't speak English?
bending over backwards for the minority... yeah, that's a good idea.
ON ANOTHER SUBJECT......
Sarah Palin's 17 year old daughter is pregnant.
I guess that trashes rumors that the 4 month old child Sarah Palin just had is really her daughter's child.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...01/1318541.aspx
From NBC's Mark Murray
Reuters: "The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.
Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said. 'We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us,' the Palins' statement said. 'Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support,' the Palins said."
*** UPDATE *** Here's a statement the McCain camp released from Todd and Sarah Palin, which is identical to the quote in the Reuters story: "We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us. Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We're proud of Bristol's decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support."
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media to respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For what it's worth, Palin broke the story herself.