Red Raspberry

Take away welfare and food stamps and abortions will happen no matter what. And a lot more of them.

Tibbi

Then you're not talking about the legal status abortion, you're talking about the legal definition of life. Which makes you entire preceding argument and this entire thread moot. Street abortion can't be regulated by law the same way medical abortion can, so there is no argument. I fail to see how you thought this was topical.

faithofadragon

you know, from now on if whatnot types more than 3 paragraphs, im just gonna start downvoting.



not cuz i disagree (cuz lets face it,tl;dr) but more-so toward hating to read essays when not at school.

187sks

I think you missed the point I was making.



1. If the cost/burden of taking care of a person is too great, yes I'm fine with killing them.



2. Most people think me saying that is horrible, so I pointed out that it's a part of daily life to let people die by not helping, which isn't that different fundamentally. It would cost less to save the lives of dozens of African children than to raise one unwanted child to adulthood in the US.

Tibbi

1. The statement is a disagreeable opinion stated (previously) as if it were a fact.
   
2. I get the point, but the justification is a stretch at best, and a gross over assumption of responsibility. That exact same justification could be used to argue the killing of prison inmates regardless of crime simply due to budget cuts. The states can't afford 'em so lets just put them all under. If the decision were that simple, why even have laws barring murder? Roommate can't pull together rent this month? Lets just kill him and find a replacement. Lost you job and teenagers cost to much? Put them out of your misery. Seems like a completely different subject now, but it the exact same thing you just used to justify this convoluted topic. I'd like to here a more scientific argument regarding the fetus's consciousness or even the legal rights of the child as an embryo. Simply putting a dollar sign between life and death is revolting. I personally have enough respect for the miracle that is existence (be it human or otherwise) that I have spared no expense to save the life of a fish in my aquarium. Treating a human life like a tarnished penny... there are far better arguments. And for that matter, at least show some concern for the type procedure if you are going to support the stance.
   

pas1216

LOL @ a bunch of guys arguing about abortion. It doesn't matter what your view is, it ultimately comes down to what the woman wants to do.

wheel_of_steel

Tibbi, am I right in saying that you think that life should be preserved as much as possible? I base that off the comment you made about the fish.



It's worth saving your fish because that fish will presumably have a pretty good life

I don't think it's worth forcing something to be alive if it isn't going to have a good life



raspberry mentioned cannon fodder, prison filler etc...

pas1216

adoption is always an option.

faithofadragon

there are currently close to half a million children stuck in foster care right now.



adoption becomes like a damn animal shelter, only the cute and cuddly ones get adopted where the rest are stuck in the system waiting for freedom.

Tibbi

HA!! Not in the slightest. There are LOTS of people that deserve to die. Clearly you've never read my rants about x, y and z types of people need to extinguished. Also that I could clearly sh*t myself sixteen ways before caring if some indigenous hobos in East Bumfuck Africa reproduce rather than take ownership of their lives. But an unborn child is a clean slate, capable of anything. I say kill the honey boo boos and young kardashians or what have you, and place the [potentially aborted] children in the care of people that actually give a flying f*ck. The biggest problem with adoption is how asinine the process is. People that want to adopt that are "ineligible" can drop by China and pick up a dozen without any concern. Hell, take some of those African children home next time if you're that damn concerned. That whole process (at least here in North America) needs to be revamped. There are any number of circumstances that would very easily alleviate this, that the same people arguing against abortion as a whole exacerbate.



My point was simply, its not as cut-and-dry as people want to argue. The process, the aftermath, the initial cause, all of these have to be taken into account. I'd like to know, of the people here arguing either side, how many have have been through the process in any capacity. I used to be very much of the personal choice camp, but after sitting in the waiting room of one of those clinics there is a clear moral issue at hand. When you have multiple females joking and laughing through the process, bragging about the number of said operations each has had. While the lone rape victim sits pitifully in the corner regretting that moment in time and sobbing uncontrollably, confused, scared, mind intent on the task but physiology sending opposing message to keep the kid. The fact is the process is all to simple and requires no justification. It should be a shameful last resort, not a Thursday afternoon after a weekend partying too hard. If you doubt any of the above, just go sit in an abortion clinic waiting room for a few hours and try to come back with a shred of belief in humanity.









As for the fish, I love my fish. They innocent animals that are completely reliant on my care to exist. Kind of pathetic on their part, but I take that as a huge responsibility. Besides, most fish in the pet trade are so many generations from wild fish (in some cases not even the same species any more) that they have no natural instincts. It's my job as their guardian to make sure they have a decent quality of life. The result, I have an animal that is as genuinely interested in me, as I am in it. Yes, my fish actually respond to my existence, most human children these days don't even do that. Hell, if I went to the pet store, bought 72 dogs, took them home, never fed them, forgot they existed, genuinely just neglected them, I'd be labeled a monster and hung out to dry legally. But if I go a sh*t load of fish and do the same no one cares. It's still an animal and has the same right to live as any other.