Loneshark

so ive been thinking to what extent am i ready to live without modern conveniences, like electricity and running water, and for how long could i survive like that. without grocery stores, without medical services, without gas stations.



im not talking apocalyptic status, like the fall of the government, or shifting of the north and south pole causing cataclysmic weather change.



im thinking more along the lines of your entire city being wiped out, with the option to relocate to a new area.



what would be on your list of must haves as far as what your taking with you to relocate, and what you think your going to need. from clothes to medicine, from food to tools/equipment.



what do you think you would need from your current possessions to start over somewhere new ? are you willing to leave that new 7.1 surround system behind, or are you going to pack it in the ol Tiburon and go !?



id really like to see this thread turn into a sensible debate on whats needed and whats not

Stocker

Not too worried about it. I can't afford to stock up right now . . . I'm so broke if I didn't turn to banditry I'd be part of TIDO for sure.

187sks

I have some basic supplies that will be tough to get in an emergency, plus several thousand rounds to make up the difference.

StrikeEagle

It was interesting, I had this opportunity a few months ago when the tornados swept through Huntsville, AL, and wiped everything out for awhile. Here's my take on what was necessary, what worked, and what we really needed. We were without power for right around 7 days.



--Electricity. The biggie. This was pretty much the only thing that was out, but caused the most problems. No cooking, no heating/cooling, no lights, no refrigeration, no traffic lights, no stores, nothing. This was the major problem, but we got around it pretty well. Read on.

--Generators - my parents were able to get one from a friend, but they only hooked it up to their refrigerator was on it, and a coule of chargers. This worked well enough for them. It was pretty funny the people who thought you could buy a generator, not put any gas in it, and miraculously hook it up to your house and have normal power to your house. Reality check. I had a pretty high capacity battery that I had just bought for my studio flashes for photography. This was plenty to watch a movie on a laptop (laptop battery hasn't worked in years), or charge a few things. I also had the power inverter in my car which I could refresh the battery with or top off our cell phones. That was a really nice help. I also have quite a few rechargeable AA and AAA batteries for my strobe flashes which we could have used in flashlights.

--Cooking - used the propane grill for everything. Had a burner on the side of the grill so I could use pots and pans pretty well. Course, this means I needed to have propane, but a tank can last about a year with just occasional use. Problem: I bought my propane tank about 1 year earlier. It went empty on me right during the tornados. Fortunately Lowes had just gotten a new delivery right when I got to the store and could swap it out. Score.

--Heating/cooling - fortunately it happened in April, so we were right in that time where it was cool enough at night and warm enough during the day that we probably would have left the air off anyhow. Were really fortunate with that. Not a month later the Japan earthquake happened and it was snowing over there. No idea how that could have worked.

--Lights - our house is lit during the day pretty well, and at night we had enough flashlights to go around. In the evening we'd hang them on the chandelier and have dinner or play games. It worked surprisingly well. They were all LED flashlights, so we never ran out of batteries.

--Refrigeration - this was probably the hardest part. We had 2 large coolers which we put everything in and tried to keep it full of ice. Even so, some bags leaked (and contaminated other bags if they leaked too), and even ice can't keep things completely cold. We lost probably over half of the stuff in the fridge/freezer, but fortunately we're cheap, and most of it was relatively inexpensive to replace (~$100-150). We grilled as much of the meats and other more expensive stuff as quickly as possible, so that helped the damage. Getting ice though, was really hard. See "Stores" below for some of the problem. The main problem was everyone was out of ice. My wife and I stopped at 6 different places one day before finally finding a couple bags of ice. We'd have to get a new bag about every day, which did prove to be pretty tricky.

--Traffic lights - they had a dusk-to-dawn curfew in the city. With it being dark and without traffic lights, it would be very easy to miss a traffic light and hit someone else. During the day all stoplights were 4-way stops, unless there was a policeman there. Many, many people left town, and many people simply stayed at home, so any time we went out, traffic was very light.

--Stores - most places were closed, but a few tried to stay open. Either they'd have a generator running the lights, or just keep the front half of the store open (natural light), or have one of their employees give you a shopping list and they'd run around the store getting what you needed, or have an employee escort you around the store. Lots of ingenuity going on. For payment, cash was preferred, but if you paid by credit card, they'd write down your information and charge it later. Everything in TN was open, and it's only about 20 minutes away for us. Of course, lots of stores were running out of things quickly, but at least there was an option.

--Gas stations - all of them in AL were closed, so we'd have to drive about 20 minutes to TN to get any. Fortunately we had both cars filled as soon as the power went out and didn't drive much afterwards, so we never really needed to fill up. Lines at the few open stations were insane. I was returning from a trip in the Birmingham/Atlanta area, and even 2 hours away from Huntsville, there were still very long lines.

--Water - fortunately we had water the whole time. Never got cut off or went bad. This was the biggest blessing of all. I really don't think we could have survived without it. Our hot water ran out within about 2 days, but we could still get by pretty well.

--Phones - cell phone towers were mostly out the day of the tornados, but fortunately were back up within a couple days. I could still call my wife once in awhile and occasionally get in touch with my parents (also in town), and they did start working pretty soon after.

--Sleeping - beds still worked! Was cool enough at night that it wasn't uncomfortable.

--Work - closed for about a week - oh what to do!? No hardship for me here, I still got paid too.

--Church - only one Sunday without power, and we held a short service in the foyer (natural light again). A number of people were then going off to help clear trees or debris. We go to a pretty small church, so we weren't prepared enough to provide a lot of help. A number of churches in the area had food banks, stacks of ice, charging stations, and so on.

--Things to do - cleaned the deck, front porch, cleaned with windows inside and out, cleaned up the garage, washed and waxed my car, detailed my parents car inside and out (and got paid nicely for it!). Played a lot of games with my wife, read a lot, hung out with my parents, slept in late. It was actually really nice.

--Looting/unrest - none in our area, and even in town, none that we knew of. It was actually surprisingly peaceful. The curfew helped keep people at home at night which helped keep things quiet. Talked to some neighbors we hadn't met before which was cool. We live pretty well in the country, so it was a lot more quiet as well, but I sure wish I had bought a Ruger SR9c before (birthday present? Anyone? Anyone??).

--Hospitals/airports - both appeared to have power, I think the only places in town that really did.





Anyhow, that's how things went with a week without power. My wife and I were talking afterwards, and anything much longer than that would have been pretty hard. It was really convenient having TN so close by so if we did need anything, we still could have access to it. As far as widespread, long times, and no water? It could have been really tough.

Tomte

@StrikeEagle what a shitty week - to use a gross understatement



Staying put is probably a good idea if only your city is affected. Basically you do not need much to relocate outside your city. I guess transportable valuables, memorabilia and money. Birth certificates, ID, diploma's, titles. That would be assuming you are basically stripped of everything you own. Everything that is stolen/damaged would be covered by my insurance anyhow



I'm cleaning out the house right now and noticed how much stuff accumulates with no purpose at all

Loneshark

awesome ! thanks for this input !





luckily during hurricane Irene, we only lost power for a few hours, but many are still without power now. sunday the 28th in Norfolk.





one thing to note, if you buy a generator from the home depot, and you DO NOT put any gas in it, you can return it. i know this as i was a home depot employee for a year, last year.



a power inverter is a must have ! some people dont even know that their cars might have one built in already !



when i was in the navy, someone had bought these flashlights that use a magnetic coil where the batteries would go, and you shook it a few times, and it charged the capacitors inside, and powered the LEDs for almost 20 minutes ! i have to look in to those.





i bought a tank of propane just in case ! 20 bucks for a refill, of 55 bucks for a new tank.





i have to give it to them japanese for enduring those frigid waters and snowy weather during that tsunami.





a few months back i bought Energize LED flashlights, they are still going strong ! and they have nice clear 8k lumen light, in a perfect circular pattern without any refraction lines ! must have item !



also i want to look into some higher power LED lanterns.



but in the end, its all about candles !





what we did was empty the automatic ice maker of ice, into strong contractor bags ! we made about 4, 20 pound bags worth. and crammed them into the freezer, one thing we didnt have were coolers. maybe when the power would have went out for longer periods, a transfer of food into coolers (a smaller space) would have been ideal to keep stuff cold.



yea, curfews were set here as well, 8pm to 8am and all the traffic lights were out.





luckily i didnt have to experience this, nor did anyone else i know of around the area. this storm ended up being very mild. and outages of power are sporatic. im in a densely populated military town, so theres plenty of supplies to go around.





we made sure to have gas in the tank. we both had 3/4 of a tank. also if you plan on using a power inverter from your car, you're going to need some extra dinosaur juice !





just in case, i gathered up all the bottles from the recycle bin, rinsed them out, and fill about 5 bottles with tap water, and 5 bottles of filtered water.



also we filled the bath tubs with water, to have some wash water, and water to fill the toilet bowl tank in order to flush it.



water if very underrated. people ask why do i need water, i have plenty of soda and rum... well if you need to go outside and perform some emergency repairs, or chop up a fallen tree, you're going to want to wash your hands and armpits when you're done. also if you should happen to injure yourself, or cut yourself, you're going to need some water to clean up the wounds. also your pets need water.



also something to consider is knowing how to clean water, and purify it. how many drops of bleach do you add to a gallon of water to kill bacteria, and how long after you make this mix, does it take for the bleach to do its job? there are also pills you can add to water to purify it.





what did we do before the age of the beeper and cell phone ?? i cant remember. lol



--Sleeping - beds still worked! Was cool enough at night that it wasn't uncomfortable.



--Work - closed for about a week - oh what to do!? No hardship for me here, I still got paid too.





although im not a church goer, the church is community, and community is survival ! lots of free supplies to be had from the church in times of need.



--Things to do - cleaned the deck, front porch, cleaned with windows inside and out, cleaned up the garage, washed and waxed my car, detailed my parents car inside and out (and got paid nicely for it!). Played a lot of games with my wife, read a lot, hung out with my parents, slept in late. It was actually really nice.



i would say 500 round on standby is plenty to keep the zombies away !



--Hospitals/airports - both appeared to have power, I think the only places in town that really did.









did you have any prep time for this disaster ? or was it pretty much a "oh sh*t here it comes" moment ?



even though we had days to prepare, you can only afford so much in this tight economy.



thanks for this strike ! lots of good stuff in your post !

HyundaiKitCoupe

money will get you everything and anything you need.





i'm totally with you on that. i use propane all the time when i'm overseas. it lasts for weeks and works great when the flame is used conservatively.

Cujo

http://imgur.com/gallery/amYmn

StrikeEagle

Lone, thanks for the commented reply! Couple more answers to your questions.



One of the flashlight I had was a manually-charged type. Had a little lever where you'd basically squeeze the flashlight and it'd cause something to spin around inside, generating power. Almost like a stress ball, so I've probably squeezed it enough to last a lifetime... LOL But with LED technology, even the 3 AAAs in the small LED flashlights could probably last months at the rate we're using them.



The thing I was getting at with the generator and gas was people were so naive, they thought you could simply buy a generator from the store or some entrepreneur on the side of the road and have all your problems solved. They didn't consider the fact that there's no big "AC INPUT" on the side of your house, or that generators actually take gas to run. And what would you ever need an extension cord for? Crazy some people are.



Water was probably the biggest need, and fortunately something we had the entire time. My parents kept their hot tub full, but after only about 3 or 4 days, it was starting to look pretty murky. I need to drink a lot and sodas or other drinks just don't cut it. Without access to a good supply of water, I would be in a hard place. Drinking, cleaning dishes, washing hands, and yeah on the occasion of having an emergency, water is really critical. And especially for those who helped out with the debris cleanup, a supply of clean water was necessary.



Preparation? Ha, not really, no. We were seeing a pretty good storm on the weather sites, but nothing could have prepared us for what actually hit. I was actually about 5hrs away on a business trip; I left the day of the storms, and headed back the day after. I drove south from Huntsville on my way out, and at one point, a tornado had just crossed the interstate - there was debris, parts of trees, and all kinds of junk over the interstate. Fortunately a crew was already there clearing, and had moved the bulk of the trees off the road. There was about a 1/4 mile swath of torn up trees right there, and I was actually surprised how quickly they had cleared the interstate. Couldn't have been more than an hour before that the tornado went through. Got to Birminham and there was a lot of evidence of significant tornado activity in the downtown area. All the traffic lights were out, so getting through there was very difficult. That evening, I got a couple frantic phone calls from my wife as the tornado (the 120mi long one) passed within about 2 miles of our house. My parents live nearby and I asked them if they'd go stay with her for the night, but because of flooding, power lines, and trees being down, they couldn't even make the 10 miles to our place. That was hard, and really rattled my wife. When I came home, there was even more damage (came home a different way and saw other towns that had serious damage), but fortunately neither my house nor my parents' was touched. The same tornado that passed within 2 miles of my house completely obliterated the back half of my parents' development. Literally, houses were just a pile of rubble across the road not 1 mile from their place. We walked through the neighborhood and within about 1/2 mile there were houses with garage doors blown out, roofs missing, then finally houses that simply weren't there anymore. Grocery stores were collapsed, gas stations with just a few cinder blocks on top of each other, cars that looked like they had been hit by a train, brick walls laid down on the grass, it was really surreal.



So back to your question about preparing for it, no, we really didn't have much time, and I'm not sure there was much we really could have done. Supplies-wise, there wasn't really anything we lacked (other than the propane tank running out in the middle), and like I said, the water was the biggest thing. We did fine for the ~7 days without power, but any longer than about 10 days and we would have had a little more difficulty. Possible, just a bit harder.