Hobgoblin

Ok, so in my 12 hour shifts... Ive had plaenty of time to "research" some of this stuff... so I thought Id throw some "change into the hat". I know it wont change anything... but hey, might as well stand up for how I belive, Im fighting for these rights, why not exercise them, right?

The war in Iraq... WMD and terrorism were the main reasons...
(I can back those)

-Saddam has paid cash rewards, up to $25,000 per bombing, to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers in the West Bank and Gaza
( http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/st...,927004,00.html )

-Al Qaeda operatives are carrying out terrorist attack in Iraq against coalition forces.
( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,82557,00.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/29/...bomb/index.html )

-Saddam's Iraq hosts a number of terrorist groups, namely Ansar al-Islam (formerly known as Jund al-Islam), which is linked to Al Qaeda
( http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s822025.htm )

-Saddam and his regime has rewarded Iraqi homicide bombers with medals and their families with large sums of money. They also vowed that such attacks would become routine policy. This is a flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention Accords, which Iraq claims to follow!
( http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...b=SpecialEvent3 )

-Saddam and his regime used chemical nerve agent to murder thousands of Kurds in northern Iraq. This campaign known as, Infal, lasted from 1987 to 1989, during which over 200,000 Iraqis were slaughtered by Saddam Hussein.
( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_ea...ast/1877161.stm )

-Saddam and his regime has fired Scud, Seersucker, and Silkworm missles, some of which violate the UN's 150km range, at Kuwait. He also has not destroyed all of his banned Al-Samoud missiles.
( http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/28/...sion/index.html )

-U.S. forces have found banned chemical weapons (WMDs) stored in huge drums at a military training camp in Central Iraq. General Benjamin Freakly of the 101st Airborne Division said tests performed Monday indicate the presence of nerve and blister agents.
( http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83449,00.html )

-Saddam and his regime has executed, tortured, and raped many who opposed him (including his own family members).
( http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/iraq.pdf )

-In 1980 he initiated a horrendous, 8 year war with Iran, during which time he used chemical weapons to kill Iranian soldiers and innocent Iranian citizens.
( http://projects.sipri.se/cbw/research/fact...sheet-1984.html )

-Protestors say that Islamic terror will increase against the West and America. Saddam actually funds and supports many of these Islamic terrorists (see above). To eliminate him is to eliminate a major source of funding of terrorism!

Ok so, theres a few reasons for the war in Iraq, and I put a link for referance(yeah youll have to copy and paste the links but they ARE there), other than the so called "conquest for oil" or just to take up where daddy Bush left off...

majik

I am glad we went to Iraq.

Terrorism - Yes, that's obvious. If we attack Iraq, we attack terrorism where it is alive and well. We turn the government around, and in turn we'll be able to have more informed and smarter citizens who will be less likely to turn to a life of terror, and instead hopefully be able to build the country and have actual businesses, and maybe even be able to run their own company some day. Improving their economy will be better for the World, and help us in the long run.

WMD - Yeah, it's been found, but not in the mass quantities we had expected. I am sure some are still left unfound, but regardless. Have you heard the interviews with the generals and top military officials? They are all surprised we haven't been able to find more. With the intelligence we had (which wasn't very good, due to democrats reducing military and intelligence funding) there was plenty of reason to believe Iraq had WMD. Several countries were with us on going into Iraq. I fail to understand how we can blame the President.

Kerry voted to go to Iraq. Everyone knows about that. But all liberals say, "yeah, but he thought they had WMD and he was lied to" ... sorry to break it to you, but same goes for Bush.

Whether or not 9/11 EVER happened, Saddam had to go. I would have supported the war if 9/11 was never a factor. Yes, several lives have been lost, but not nearly as many have been lost compared to what terrorist lives have been taken. And certainly not nearly as many as other wars we have been involved in. REDZ has posted it before, so I won't go over the numbers again.

People say, "we don't need to police the World." Yeah right, we tried that back in the 1940's... see what happened with Hitler? We allowed him to kill millions of his own people, and then he got carried away.
( http://www.dickinson.edu/~history/dictator...s/hitlerfp.html )

In the other thread, REDZ mentioned North Korea and China, and the governments over there. He was stationed in Korea for a good amount of time, meanwhile helping the Hyundai aftermarket scene with his good contact with David at KSpec, which continues to help us rice out our cars today. wink.gif He was there, I will take his word for it. It's amazing to me how many people involved in the military are supporting President Bush in the campaign. Maybe there's a reason for it? They are the ones risking their lives, yet they still support Bush. (don't make me get links for them, there are too many to post).

I wish Kerry would state his views on the issues. He hardly ever answers a question directly and it irritates me sooo much! Bush will at least say, "this is what I will/would do" and he does it. At least we know where we're going with Bush. If we elect Kerry, hell, who knows, he could have flip flopped his way to being a conservative by the time he gets in office. 8O

REDZMAN

Good points all, Jared, good work brotha. I've also got several links saved up here...

Polish Troops Find Sarin Warheads
Friday, July 02, 2004

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124576,00.html


Sarin, Mustard Gas Discovered Separately in Iraq
Monday, May 17, 2004

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C12...20137%2C00.html

So yes, there are WMD's in Iraq. Beyond that, dual use facilities can let you change a factory that makes baby milk into a factory that makes Anthrax just by changing the ingredients and some temperatures. Who needs to keep a STOCKPILE of dangerous and degrading WMD's around when you can make a few tons of lethal material in a few hours notice?

Folks need to wake up and see how easy it is to make the stuff. How easy it is to hide it, and how easy it is to use it. I was a chemical/biological/nuclear weapons defence specialist the entire time I was in the military, 11 years.

You guys should be more scared of Chem/Bio than Nukes.

Hobgoblin

I was just scratching the surface.... I didnt want to take EVERYTHING LOL

I knew you would have to try to get at least a page wink.gif lol.gif

00tibby

hmmm, i think we have a very Repub. web site here......9 to 1.

iamcyclopseatme

So my posts are idiotic.. Sue me.. I dont have time to read hours on end like some people, I dont work w/ a computer, nor have much time to watch the news.. I do know that IMO I dont like the way the country is going, and ALOT has to do w/ my job occupation.. And YES, that is bush's fault.. Hes granted sooo many illegals citizenship in this country.. Also, 2 BULLSHIT rules IMO are if you are illegal, and you marry someone legal, you are given citizenship.. Thats crap.. 2nd, if you are illegal, and have a child, you gain citizenship along w/ your child.. Wow, neither of those 2 things are hard, and both of those are MAJOR factors of why my occupation is suffering so badly.. That is why i hate bush, not to mention the fact that we have been in Iraq WAYYYY too long.. I agree, we should have gone to war and I supported it @ the beginning.. But this is dragging out WAYYY too long.. We need arent the worlds government, let them start their own.. We dont need to sit in there and let our troops die still, SADDAM IS GONE.. Personally, I think kerry is a f***ing moron, and ive NEVER liked him, but I hate bush more, and i KNOW nader doesnt stand a chance.. Im actually thinking of voting for nader, even though its like a wasted vote ;/

a_gut

That is absolutely not true. Personal experience, let's just say lol.gif

REDZMAN

The immigration thing, that's always been there. It's not on Bush's shoulders.

And for Iraq? You'd rather we just up and leave and have a power vaccum? Keep in mind, we are still in Kosovo, Bosnia, Germany, Japan, all of our bases in these places started because of the need to help reconstruct after a war, and to keep more from happening. We are still there for the same reasons.

WTF is everyone so concerned with how long we've been in Iraq?

1. We are still in Korea

2. We are still in Bosnia.

3. We are still in Kosovo.

4. We are still in Afganistan

5. We've been in Iraq for the LEAST amount of time out of any of these. 2 of the above mentioned were under Clinton's rule, 1 has been around for over 50 years, and I'm not even mentioning Japan or Germany. Oops, I guess I did.

The thing is guy, if you DON'T read about the news, and history, then you really have not basis to talk about these things, really. Great, you have a job where you have to work with a bunch of illegals or immigrants. Fix it. Or change your job. Last time I checked, we are ALL immigrants here, unless any of you are 100% Native American.

Hobgoblin

Very true!! No one ever says anything about those places... Ill wager that MOST people dont even know we are still there!

As for just pulling out of Iraq and letting them run things themselves... You cant just take a country that has been in tyrany for as long as Iraq has and expect them to run themselves, it jsut doesnt happen! Look at all these African countries. They are having revolts out the wahzoo and the rebels are turning the country to shiz... people and little kids starving!

Thats why we are still there, so we dont trade them one crazy, tyrant for another one!!

We learned from our mistakes way back when... why open the door for another Hitler? We NEED to be there to make sure that things will be left RIGHT! So that, as soon as we leave it doesnt fall apart and we have to go back! Whats so hard to see about that?

Ok so Im sorry that I had some time... when you are in charge of all the maint. going on on an ENTIRE flightline at an Air Force base, and we go under weather hold... nothing is going on... you have time! :roll:

REDZ is right, you dont like it GET OUT, move on... No one is making you stay there, either shut up and color or leave the room.
Get in some news... read some history... actually have a basis to talk from... wink.gif[/color][color=#444444]

majik

Bush's fault? They were already here. They were granted temporary citizenship for a reason. They have to register, and when they do, we're able to keep track of them, and at the end of the allotted time (4-5 years?) we can kick them out. It was done for protection of ourselves, so that we could see where the illegals were (think terrorists) and to try to help us keep track of everybody in this country that isn't documented. What he did hasn't hurt your job. If anything, it may secure it more for you in a few years when we can start kicking out the illegals (temporary legals).
I don't think you've yet given anything close to a rational reason why you 'hate' Bush. I won't touch on the quote above since it's already been bashed and squashed.
Once again, your point has been bashed and squashed.

And he never will stand a chance, as long as everone who wants to vote for him doesn't. I think this is the first election that an independent would have a good strong following. So many people hate Kerry AND Bush, yet they won't vote for Nader who they approve of more. Nader has offered to serve in Kerry's cabinet, so I guess he's more liberal than conservative.