So Soldiers are more educated than college students? Really?! Pardon me, but most Soldiers go in because it's the only opportunity left for them. College students don't go to college because it's their last resort, they go there to learn. you go there to learn. we go to college to learn because we know intelligence is our future. majority college students will know more about politics than a nice chunk of the entire U.S. population.

i'd also like to add that you can't compare myspace college voters to older voters because the older voters were once college voters at some point too. Every Presidential election has a percentage of college voters. INFACT college voters know MUCH more than college students 20, 30 years ago thanks to computers. So there's no claim to that being an issue either.



we're not occupied. they're not occupied. it's a religious war.



hence the government is corrupt. you really think those butterfly ballot excuse really was the issue or was it because floridas vote count was so close? also we get votes counted in from other countries (some i don't want to mention). i don't believe in voting because underneath this big a carpet there's roaches.



it is already! the U.S. as a leading country has the biggest crime rates in the world. come live in the city.

i do think you have a well accustomed argument on some aspect, however i'm not referring to Palin's way of talking, it's the low level content. it's low level. she's nothing short of an ordinary rich soccer mom who likes making money. next, why do you think she's that successful in a state with unordinary citizens residing with nothing to do? (citizens sure as hell 'aint a skyskraper to get morning coffee in, and probably don't have to deal with shootings, rapings, muggings, robberies, illegal aliens, traffic jams, trash, welfare, low-income housing, high tax locations, sewage, and all the other typical city bullshit) so it's no wonder why Palin is successful. Let's get a Governor from Virginia or New England and then tell me Sarah Palin for President! Palin doesn't even know global politics because she's just a regular person.



they're ignorant and don't know africans invented slavery and practiced it amongst themselves long, long before white man ever put it to use. what else did you expect if they don't know their history then they're not going to know the politics behind their vote? i'm predicting they're going to hop in their vans and get all of their kids to vote. you think they'd let the the only african descent in history slip from presidency? i don't think so.

i'm not saying you guys are wrong or my political views are justified, but this is a classic case of rural vs. urban. just look at the red and blue map of the U.S. and tell me it's not.

just look at where the major city states. Chicago, New York, Los Angeles & San Fran.

this video is insignificant because it all narrows down to where this guy is from. i bet he's from a less urban state. as far as his experience in the war, every soldier has a different experience, jarhead being a good example. Next, any President at this time in history will support the Troops no matter what. It's not like one President is going to singlehandedly deter the situation in Iraq moreso than another President.

I will rephrase that people who do think strongly about voting, do not have 1 single clue as to how corrupted the votes and the voting system is under the surface. We're talking riddled with fraud.

 

^I agree.

 

Duh, I know that tom, and do you know why he did it? The republicans made him look bad, he did it as a swipe against Bush and the republicans, remember who it was that talked to the UN about Iraq in the first place? (This was immediately talked about on all of the major news shows right afterwards, and almost all agreed about it).

The fact that he waited as long as he did just emphasizes this point.

So, that's one Secretary of State that has endorsed Obama.

4 OF THEM ENDORSED MCCAIN!!!

Secretaries of State, State Kissinger, Baker, Eagleburger and Haig.

I love ya Tom, but the rest of that, I'm not even responding to. If you didn't watch the video, or DID and didn't listen to it, then you don't know why it's such a simple choice to most of those who've served. The Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Times papers all did a survey with their respective services, and over 68% stated they are voting for McCain. 99 % of blacks surveyed said Obama.

Obama hasn't served, is a coward, and just wants to get us out as quick as he can, that's how he got such a steamroller going to begin with.

To be honest, we SHOULD stay in Iraq, we should keep bases there permanently just like in Korea and Japan. They give us a forward position to operate in the future, they give us a buffer between folks that want to kill innocent Americans, and they ensure we won't be going back AGAIN.

Lastly, as I've said before, I'd rather have a somewhat inexperienced VP, than a completely inexperienced President.



And your post just proves that the Media has wrapped you up like a large number of the US too. You don't understand how it is to be proud to be an American, because you are a Canadian. I've never met a proud Canadian.



I'd say the average private I've served with with more than 2 years in the service is smarter in the ways it matters, than 90% of the students I meet in college.

Education doesn't mean you've been to school, street smarts, personal experience, worldliness, all will educate you more, deeper, and quicker, than any degree granting college.



Last resort? Wow, you really are a moron aren't you HKC? We have an all Volunteer military. I had many other options, and went in to serve my country. Folks with no other option don't join the service often, they have no willpower, no courage, so they don't do shit.



That's all fine and dandy, but no, I didn't compare the 2. I didn't bring up older voters at all. The majority of the students I've talked to have made their minds up based on these.

1. Race.
2. Popularity/Youth
3. Media coverage.



Wrong. It's an ideological war, on their side religion is used as a binding agent to get their people to fight, because a LOT of them aren't educated at all.



All governments are corrupt. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, ever heard of that?

What's a butterfly ballot?

You don't vote, then you don't do the ONE thing you can do to change shit! In my opinion, that gives you NO right to b****. Vote, and you can b****, don't vote, don't open your mouth.



So use some logical analysis to see why this is so?

Rural life is hard, lonely, inconvenient, and requires SACRIFICE.

Those in urban areas don't do any of this. They don't know sacrifice (I've lived in many LARGE urban areas), they care about themselves only.



...

I'm astonished by what you've said here.




I posted this video for folks to look at, and comment on, and we get Palin attacks and Obama talking points.

Amazing.

 

I'm just wondering, if we're doing them such a service and we're making their country so great and helping their people so much, why do they hate us so much now more than ever? Iraq is a terrible place to live right now, worse than 2002. There is chaos and violence every single day in the streets, and innocent Iraqi civilians dying every single day too because of it. I just watched a documentary on HBO, it was quite horrifying, actually. You know, the stuff they aren't allowed to show you on the 5 o'clock news. Iraqis hate us being there. Usually when you do someone a "favor," they're grateful..
As for freedom? Freedom is a state of natural being, it's not something that can be forced. When it is ready, it will happen. Just like it always has throughout the history of the world.

 

wow... there is so much crap in this thread, I don't know where to begin.

The crap I speak of isn't even McCain / Obama related. It's just ignorance.

 

^^^
Zoned

I bet it didn't show our troops handing out sports equipment (soccer balls, cricket bats and mits ect.) and school supplies as well as rebuilding their hospitals and schools among other buildings. With enough editing they can make it look like hell or paradise. It just depends on who is making that documentary. Oh we are also employing Iraqi civilians so they can earn an income from the construction of theses bulidings. while these civilians are employed they get 1-2 free meals depending on the work day.

 

And you think US news shows whats happening there? Or anywhere else in the world?

 

^^^
Fox News does.




Sounds like you are reading papers from 2 or more years ago. Violence is down to it's lowest rating in how many years? Iraqi's have control of what, almost half of the country on their own now? Street markets are open and thriving, and the commander of US forces can walk down the streets of Tikrit with only 2 bodyguards, and no body armor?

A LOT of the Iraqi's HATED us there (what's the name of the show you watched on HBO?), but things have changed.

So, no one is going to comment on the quality of this privately shot video? No one here is going to say that it was a moving video?

 

The guy in the video is joe cook. I just found this article: http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=n...&id=5685477

btw, I think we need to branch off about 90% of this thread into "lets all fight about the upcoming election!" wink1.gif

 

^i'd say none of this discussion is ignorant or off topic. ignorant is being racist, not having a different but logical perspective. if anybody was ignorant, they wouldn't even be posting in this thread. this video is about soldiers view based on his experience of the war and who he's supporting. it's a personal PROMOTIONAL video. if we aren't talking about the candidacy, why should we say anything and what's this thread really about? nice stilt kid?

if anybody think that i'm being mean or ignorant on this thread i'm not. it just comes out that way in writing. i'm just having a debate. i'm not heated, hurt, or out of control, it's just a simple debate. i just want to put fourth that there are different ways of interpreting this video based on how people think here. what else you expect coming from D.C. itself? we never agree on anything, so expect difference of view. one of my good friends is in Iraq now, including 5 marines that have served there, 1 air force. My conclusions are based on their conclusions and i talk to them all the time.

name one palin attack or obama support. none mentioned here. and it's dumb a mccain thread should only be allowed to talk about mccain. i'll make a thread about only obama and nobody can talk about mccain. ???? bs2.gif analysts are predicting he's under count right now. i don't believe a vote defines any stance. anybody has their own distinct perception, so anybody should be entitled to one.

agree every government is corrupt. i think tiibbymat is completely right though. we have so many internal problems in our own country we should be thinking of ourselves first. corrupt U.S. banking and crime is bad, schooling needs to be repaired, illegal labor and taxes... you name it! pulling out doesn't necessarily mean "pulling out", it could mean putting a cap on the lid. those guys can't be there forever. you really think those terrorists are gone and Iraq safe? they're relocated, and they'll always exist.

can we afford to stay in iraq? banking melting, massive job cuts, i don't think so. remember, it was our defense and central intelligence that deceived us, not our missle barriers or coast guard. we were never really attacked to begin with. neither mccain or obama can change that now. they have to go through with whatever needs to be done. so it really won't matter whether you or me, non-voters, or the handicap veteran chooses, there's still a war that has to be taken into full obligation.

google search butterfly ballots. the term used for describing the split ballots in florida with voting selections in the middle which created the sense that voters thought they were voting for their candidate, when the selection was really for someone next to it. florida decided the outcome of the 2000 election and it wasn't decided after more than a month of counting and recounting. it was all bullsh*t excuse to get Bush to win because some other country needed him to fight their war. although there is no proof (it's all covered up and burned in ashes) the votes were tampered with. look at the Acorn company fraud where they submitted fake votes. think it's the only one? i dont.

i also agree with zoned019. you said it there, freedom will occur when it's ready. unfortunately the tensions over there have not dispersed. there are suicidal bombings bi-weekly. they hate the "west" and will continue to do so.

Mccain refused to invite a meet with Spanish President Zapatero because Spain took troops out of Iraq during which he confused the country Spain with Latin America?! That's just sad...

wanna talk about the video? i'm not going to say that this video is moving. there are soldiers who have worse damages who haven't taped themsleves. there are soldiers who have less damages. there are different soldiers of all walks, of course they're all going to have different attitudes towards the vote. this guy is just one of many. my sorrow goes out to the families of the dead who don't really fully understand the cause for why their kids were blown to pieces somewhere on the other side of the planet.