Albuquerquefx

^^ those christian and muslim examples are of your own bias, not that of the religion.

There are literally a thousand things on that website where God instructs his followers to kill, mame, rape, pillage, and other unfathomable acts in the name of him. So if I live by all those things, then I'm going to turn out exactly how you describe a muslim terrorist.

So you either need to reconcile all that evil in the current bible, or you need to understand that muslims are equally peaceful to christans en-masse. Both sides have their overzealous idiots, you just happen to be an advocate (or apologist?) of your favorite, which is why you can only spew hatred for the other.

Regardless of any of that, you've yet to demonstrate any logical reason why we should not be considered hipocrites for violating our own laws in the name of "We don't like you."

Stocker

Context: helpful.

Fictional N.O.W. survey question: "Which do you prefer: Beating your wife with a tire iron or shooting her with a 12 gauge"

The N.O.W. newsletter headline: "78.3% of men would rather beat their wives with tire irons!"

If you just want to go by random phrases lifted out of context, I'm pretty sure most everyone in the world is a pretty heinous felon.

Albuquerquefx

These aren't sentences, they're entire stories in the bible. Multiple paragraphs.

And since you (or others) are doing the same for the Qoran, I see no difference. If I lived like God instructed me to in the bible, I'd be one of the top most wanted people on the planet. There's no "ethical" person who would identify with my plight.

And quite assuredly, the good christians of our country would very certainly not agree with my actions either.

Edit:
I'm going on vacation to Seagrove, FL effective about 3:00am tomorrow morning, and all of this next week I'll be sitting on the beach, drinking woodford and ginger ale, and getting uber-burnt smile.gif

So, I'll bow out of this discussion, knowing that we still see things differently, and I think (or at least hope) we're all probably OK with that. This has at least been a fun discussion for me to spend time at the office, and it's always fun to discuss my viewpoint with everyone else's, even if nobody agrees.

Enjoy my hiatus, keep it generally civil as we have, and PM me to let me know who wins wink1.gif

Stocker

I'll tell you right now: we win. I'm going to sneak into your office and post Bad Things from your account until you get banned. Ya n00b. wink1.gif

Look it's plain from posts like your last that you don't know much about either religion other than what you read online. I spent months studying islam and years studying christianity and I'm telling you: you're off.

Safe trip!

Albuquerquefx

I had a spare few minutes before I leave wink1.gif

Being that I'm married to the daughter of a catholic priest, and I personally own two copies of the Qoran (and a copy of the Torah), I think I know enough to say that they're equally violent. Not only that, but if the entire muslim faith is so violent and radical as you claim, then why aren't there massive uprisings here in the states? Islam represents the largest growing faith in this nation. And if their entire religion is underpinned by eradicating everyone who ISN'T their religion, why aren't they targetting bhuddists that are MUCH closer to their home turf?

Nevertheless, you continue to sidestep the original topic that you started... What does this have to do with miranda rights for suspected terrorists? If the suspect isn't muslim, are you OK with them being mirandized? Or no?

Your topic was miranda rights for terrorists. Not all terrorists are Muslim, yet you've focused on nothing but. Why is it bad that we give people the rights that we so proudly declare everyone should have?

Until you stop sidestepping this question (and the original topic of your own thread), then you've yet to win anything, nor convince me of anything either.

Stocker

I have addressed the question, repeatedly, but you seem to be missing it. I have pointed out the last two times I spoke on the subject in case you missed them wink1.gif I insist that American citizens in the USA have equal rights. I insist that the rights of irregular enemy combatants (formerly known as: terrorists) have inferior rights. This should not be a difficult position to understand.

Mohamed had a term for muslims who refused to go out on Jihad with him: Hypocrite. It is worth noting that an hypocrite was considered by him to be worse than the infidel (against whom he was fighting a holy war). As I said, judging a religion by those who do not adhere to its tenets is not a worthwhile activity. Also, it adds nothing to the discussion that you own books or know someone who has studied them, when you have already displayed a lack of understanding of their contents.

I expect to see this revived again in a week; it seems we both like the last word!

REDZMAN

It's been interesting to read, but I still fail to find what laws of ours we have broken.

Those captured on battlefields around the world have never had those rights, so, why should they now?

likeyoumeanit

Even if we were to assume that all Muslims are terrorists and that all terrorists hate us only because Mohammad told them that we were evil, why not treat them with the dignity that we would like to be treated with? What happened to turn the other cheek and treat others as you would like to be treated? Those are christian maxims as best I recall. Sure we can beat the shit out of a man, waterboard him, and electrocute his genitals and either he'll die or eventually start talking, but how do you know that man is telling the truth? maybe he is, maybe he's misleading you to distract you from the real information, maybe he's just saying what you want to hear because your shocking his balls. In the end you might have made progress or you may have hindered your own efforts but either way you have sold your own righteousness. At that point what's the difference between a guy in a cave hating the guy in a New York apartment and a guy in a New York apartment hating a guy in a cave?

As for the Miranda warnings:

You have the right to remain silent..... Duh, its easy, stop sending electrical impulses to your larynx, if you needed someone to tell you that you probably aren't smart enough to be much of a threat.

Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law..... Again, duh, they're interrogating you because they want to convict you, otherwise they probably wouldn't have arrested you, flown you half way around the world and locked you up for a few years, you didn't just win some surprise resort vacation. If you really thought they were asking you questions because they want to help you get acquitted your a moron.

You have the right to an attorney, if you can not afford one, one will be provided for you..... woooooo going free now, they're going to give you a court appointed attorney, who cares, give them an attorney and try them; if they're guilty how hard will it be to convict them? As for cost, a nation that can spend $16000 on a hammer for the space station can either hire a crappy lawyer for them or just give shady lawyers community service and make them do it. Either way it doesn't really change the game and provides some token appearance that we as a nation give a shit.

Stocker

Fail. Seriously? We interrogate them for intelligence, use the intelligence to fight a war, win the war, then put them through military tribunals. That's the way it works when you don't have a buffoon in the White House.

We don't interrogate them for convictions. They didn't commit a crime. They are fighting in a war. Fighting in a war is different to stealing a purse. You treat the perps differently. If I didn't know the state of the government education system in the US I would be astonished that so many people can't get this concept.

REDZ you're spot on. Of course, we can also say in all honesty, Hitler got laws passed so he could legally do whatever he wanted at first. nana.gif