Midair helicopter collision kills 7 Marines
02-23-2012 | 10:06 AM
#1
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Midair helicopter collision kills 7 Marines
http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/23/us/ari...html?hpt=hp_t1
(CNN) -- Seven U.S. Marines have been killed in the midair collision of two U.S. military helicopters in southern Arizona, officials said Thursday.
The crash occurred during routine training operations Wednesday night at the Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Maj. Carl B. Redding, Jr. of the Marine Corps said in a statement.
The collision involved an AH-1W "Super Cobra" attack helicopter and a UH-1Y "Huey" utility chopper, which the military has long used for a variety of tasks. They were part of the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing.
Authorities were investigating the collision, which occurred in a remote area of a training range complex.
"We won't know exactly what happened until the investigation is complete, and we can't make any assumptions right now," said 1st Lt. Maureen Dooley, a Marine Corps spokeswoman.
The Marines onboard were preparing for deployment to Afghanistan, she said.
"We have aircraft going out to Yuma training ranges on a weekly basis, and they go out there primarily because the aircraft mimics what they will see in Afghanistan," Dooley said.
Authorities did not plan to release the names of the Marines involved until their families were notified.
Marine Corps Air Station Yuma is home to about 4,000 active duty Marines and sailors. It supports 80% of the Marine Corps air-to-ground aviation training and covers five square miles in southeastern Yuma.
The air station "hosts approximately 70 aviation units, bringing an average of 600 aircraft and 14,000 personnel for ongoing training that takes place throughout the year," utilizing U.S. and NATO forces, the station's website said.
The military describes the AH-1W as "the backbone of the United States Marine Corps' attack helicopter fleet." The UH-1Y is a twin-engine, medium-size helicopter, according to the military.
So aahhh...how does this happen? Dont these things have some kind of onboard radar system to warn the pilots if another aircraft is close to enough to hit them?
(CNN) -- Seven U.S. Marines have been killed in the midair collision of two U.S. military helicopters in southern Arizona, officials said Thursday.
The crash occurred during routine training operations Wednesday night at the Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Maj. Carl B. Redding, Jr. of the Marine Corps said in a statement.
The collision involved an AH-1W "Super Cobra" attack helicopter and a UH-1Y "Huey" utility chopper, which the military has long used for a variety of tasks. They were part of the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing.
Authorities were investigating the collision, which occurred in a remote area of a training range complex.
"We won't know exactly what happened until the investigation is complete, and we can't make any assumptions right now," said 1st Lt. Maureen Dooley, a Marine Corps spokeswoman.
The Marines onboard were preparing for deployment to Afghanistan, she said.
"We have aircraft going out to Yuma training ranges on a weekly basis, and they go out there primarily because the aircraft mimics what they will see in Afghanistan," Dooley said.
Authorities did not plan to release the names of the Marines involved until their families were notified.
Marine Corps Air Station Yuma is home to about 4,000 active duty Marines and sailors. It supports 80% of the Marine Corps air-to-ground aviation training and covers five square miles in southeastern Yuma.
The air station "hosts approximately 70 aviation units, bringing an average of 600 aircraft and 14,000 personnel for ongoing training that takes place throughout the year," utilizing U.S. and NATO forces, the station's website said.
The military describes the AH-1W as "the backbone of the United States Marine Corps' attack helicopter fleet." The UH-1Y is a twin-engine, medium-size helicopter, according to the military.
So aahhh...how does this happen? Dont these things have some kind of onboard radar system to warn the pilots if another aircraft is close to enough to hit them?
02-23-2012 | 10:55 AM
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No.
Some aircraft do have beacons that broadcast their location, but they're not precisely accurate, and with so many in the area, it's very possible. I doubt military helicopters have that though, and they definitely don't have onboard radar for that (especially the Hueys).
02-23-2012 | 11:10 PM
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A truism that continues to hold true: "Strange things happen around Marines." You wouldn't think two helicopters would hit each other. I wouldn't have thought a sheet of plywood flying down a flight line in strong winds would have Marines riding on it, trying to bring it down before it hit some parked F-18s, but it made the military safety magazines even.
02-24-2012 | 10:41 PM
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Loooong time ago, when I was active duty. Late 1990s. For whatever reason there was a sheet of plywood on a flight line, maybe there was construction nearby I forget. There was a row of Hornets down the line. High winds picked up the sheet of plywood and it was blowing right for the Hornets. This was noticed by a Marine, who decided to try to stop the rogue lumber and jumped on it. Joke was on him, the wind carried him and the plywood together. His brothers jumped on, at least one more but I want to say 2-3 more. They got it down before it hit the planes. They eventually got nominated for a NAM, but at first they weren't going to . . . the opinion of their boss was that since it happened while they were on duty, it was not "above and beyond the call of" so no cookie for you!
I would like to say most people would tend to think this was 'above and beyond' but at least some Marines didnt . . . because strange things happen around Marines.
I would like to say most people would tend to think this was 'above and beyond' but at least some Marines didnt . . . because strange things happen around Marines.
02-26-2012 | 05:41 PM
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No, not at all, maybe 50mil+ planes flying 300mph+ have them, but certainly not a helicopter....Well kind of, the Apache Longbow has a radar and can be used for air/air, but it wasn't really designed for that, it is just add 'added feuture' to it and they are rarely used.
VFR is visual flight rules. Every pilot out there is responsible for not flying into another aircraft much like a driver on the road is responsible. IFR is instrument flight rules where you are allowed to fly in teh clouds and then and only then is radar in control of you and everyone in that airspace.
IFR is really just for commuting, and most military training is VFR (maybe 30% is IFR depdning on airframe), expecially a Cobra, if you can't see it, you can't shoot it, so no need to fly in the clouds.
Though seeing another aircraft can be very difficult especially if thye are 300mph as then can go from non-exsistant to right in front of you in no time, hence why most of them have radar, or fly in the clouds to transport things/people. There are certian techniques imployed to search and rules that are recommended to follow to mitigate this risk a bit more. And the navigational charts have certain area like military training area's that are high volume air craft of aerobatic training occurs that one would be wise to avoid. For those who know they will be operating in a high volume area generally there is a common advisory freq that is used to update your position every now and then, and that can help. Also certain corridors are used and altituded to deconflict. But the whole story isn't know here. They could have been having comm issues or responding to an emergency and got pre-occupied/task saturated and where both in a corridor and one lost/gained altitude in that time of distraction and flew into them.
But even following all the rules, stuff just happens ,it was unfortunate, it must have been there time, as the statistics of that happening are quite low, but again, stuff happens. They are trained to the best they can be, but they are still human and A TON can be involved in training and task saturation/fixation can and does happen quite often.