Libya
09-14-2012 | 10:47 AM
#11
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This is heavy matter of debate even in the Muslim world. While the Qur'an doesn't specifically state so, there exist a number of religious Hadiths that specifically state any imagery of nay kind is blasphemy, and more to the point "the most grievously tormented people amongst the denizens of Hell on the Day of Resurrection would be the painters of pictures." The specific Hadiths in question state that imagery of any animal or plant-life is and act of blasphemy and can have a person ejected from the religion if not worse. The way Blasphemes are dealt with relies on the specific teachings of that sect. Some do indeed believe that all Blashemes should be murdered in an act of earthly cleansing. Hence the issue above. As for imagery of Muhammad specifically, that has been greatly exaggerated over the years and today is nothing more than that misunderstanding of the ignorant or a trigger for the excused.
Muhammad may not have specifically told his people to kill in his name, but that doesn't change the fact that some have been taught this is the case.
Islam is often abused in order the justify heinous violence. That is a fact. Deal with it.
09-14-2012 | 11:00 AM
#12
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09-14-2012 | 12:33 PM
#13
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As you just said, my statement is correct. The fact that some Islamic extremists say to kill blasphemes doesn't make it a tenant of Islam.
09-14-2012 | 01:08 PM
#14
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Again your arguing a grey issue like it's b&w.
The justification in this case being made by those responsible makes your argument null/void.
If this was a random act of violence It could easily be argued otherwise, but them using religion as a spear makes the religion inherently at fault. Not to say all of Islam is to blame, but the sect in question most certainly. If so, by your own argument Branch Davidians, Waco, TX was a solace community based on the teachings of Christ.
09-14-2012 | 03:42 PM
#15
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I don't know about bliss, but if you are ignorant of the true nature of islam, you can probably be happier than if you are clueless about it. If you DON'T understand that islam is -at its root- a religion designed to subjugate the world through violence, then you are willfully ignorant. This took all of a minute to find on google, and only illustrates the point:
No it's not the only example. People being tormented in hell (by allah) for making fun of mohammed, allah, or islam, is the most common theme in the koran. Deal with it or don't but denying it only shows how much you know.
The 7th incident involves another slave woman who was murdered, upon Muhammad's command because she had mocked Muhammad some time earlier.
From Guillaume, op cit, page 550, 551:
"Another [to be killed] was Abdullah Khatal of B. Taym b. Ghalib. He had become a Muslim and the apostle sent him to collect the poor tax in company with one of the Ansar. He had with him a freed slave who served him. (He was Muslim). When they halted he ordered the latter to kill a goat for him and prepare some food, and went to sleep. When he woke up the man had done nothing, so he attacked and killed him and apostatized. He had two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed with him."
From Guillaume, op cit, page 550, 551:
"Another [to be killed] was Abdullah Khatal of B. Taym b. Ghalib. He had become a Muslim and the apostle sent him to collect the poor tax in company with one of the Ansar. He had with him a freed slave who served him. (He was Muslim). When they halted he ordered the latter to kill a goat for him and prepare some food, and went to sleep. When he woke up the man had done nothing, so he attacked and killed him and apostatized. He had two singing-girls Fartana and her friend who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed with him."
No it's not the only example. People being tormented in hell (by allah) for making fun of mohammed, allah, or islam, is the most common theme in the koran. Deal with it or don't but denying it only shows how much you know.
09-14-2012 | 07:23 PM
#16
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Qur'an
Bible
Quote mining can also show how little one knows.
“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (al-Baqarah 2:190-194)
“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa’ 4:89-91)
“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. (Al-Nisa’ 4:89-91)
Bible
“When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)
“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)
Quote mining can also show how little one knows.
09-15-2012 | 12:06 PM
#17
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You're right, it can. Quote mining is not required for me to understand what I have studied, but it can be used to illustrate a point in question to those who have not.
The prophets in the old testament showed they had a direct line from god by doing amazing miracles and knowing things which were not possible to know in advance of them happening. The israelites were sent, with just such a miracle-working prophet as their leader, to destroy nations which had worn out god's patience by extreme wickedness to the point of sacrificing children in fires to false gods. Then the israelites were to live in houses they had not built and work farms they did not start. If god rained down fire & brimstone as on sodom & gomorrah, the houses would be wasted and the vineyards spoiled. The people had to be killed the hard way back then as there were no neutron bombs.
Mohammed was unemployed and hanging out by himself in a cave and had some kind of vision or nightmare. At first thought he had met a demon in the cave but his wife thought he could gain from the experience by starting a religion. He did. He picked a local moon god in a temple with a few hundred other idols, and started going on about how it was THE god. People made fun of him and his new fake religion and he called down condemnation from his freshly-promoted god on them. At one point he tried to switch to a different god from another town but that didnt work either so he switched back to allah instead. A large number of his raids were to keep his followers happy (and paid) because he tended not to be too smart with the money he got as their leader.
These are not the same.
The prophets in the old testament showed they had a direct line from god by doing amazing miracles and knowing things which were not possible to know in advance of them happening. The israelites were sent, with just such a miracle-working prophet as their leader, to destroy nations which had worn out god's patience by extreme wickedness to the point of sacrificing children in fires to false gods. Then the israelites were to live in houses they had not built and work farms they did not start. If god rained down fire & brimstone as on sodom & gomorrah, the houses would be wasted and the vineyards spoiled. The people had to be killed the hard way back then as there were no neutron bombs.
Mohammed was unemployed and hanging out by himself in a cave and had some kind of vision or nightmare. At first thought he had met a demon in the cave but his wife thought he could gain from the experience by starting a religion. He did. He picked a local moon god in a temple with a few hundred other idols, and started going on about how it was THE god. People made fun of him and his new fake religion and he called down condemnation from his freshly-promoted god on them. At one point he tried to switch to a different god from another town but that didnt work either so he switched back to allah instead. A large number of his raids were to keep his followers happy (and paid) because he tended not to be too smart with the money he got as their leader.
These are not the same.
09-16-2012 | 11:36 AM
#19
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You're right, it can. Quote mining is not required for me to understand what I have studied, but it can be used to illustrate a point in question to those who have not.
The prophets in the old testament showed they had a direct line from god by doing amazing miracles and knowing things which were not possible to know in advance of them happening. The israelites were sent, with just such a miracle-working prophet as their leader, to destroy nations which had worn out god's patience by extreme wickedness to the point of sacrificing children in fires to false gods. Then the israelites were to live in houses they had not built and work farms they did not start. If god rained down fire & brimstone as on sodom & gomorrah, the houses would be wasted and the vineyards spoiled. The people had to be killed the hard way back then as there were no neutron bombs.
Mohammed was unemployed and hanging out by himself in a cave and had some kind of vision or nightmare. At first thought he had met a demon in the cave but his wife thought he could gain from the experience by starting a religion. He did. He picked a local moon god in a temple with a few hundred other idols, and started going on about how it was THE god. People made fun of him and his new fake religion and he called down condemnation from his freshly-promoted god on them. At one point he tried to switch to a different god from another town but that didnt work either so he switched back to allah instead. A large number of his raids were to keep his followers happy (and paid) because he tended not to be too smart with the money he got as their leader.
These are not the same.
The prophets in the old testament showed they had a direct line from god by doing amazing miracles and knowing things which were not possible to know in advance of them happening. The israelites were sent, with just such a miracle-working prophet as their leader, to destroy nations which had worn out god's patience by extreme wickedness to the point of sacrificing children in fires to false gods. Then the israelites were to live in houses they had not built and work farms they did not start. If god rained down fire & brimstone as on sodom & gomorrah, the houses would be wasted and the vineyards spoiled. The people had to be killed the hard way back then as there were no neutron bombs.
Mohammed was unemployed and hanging out by himself in a cave and had some kind of vision or nightmare. At first thought he had met a demon in the cave but his wife thought he could gain from the experience by starting a religion. He did. He picked a local moon god in a temple with a few hundred other idols, and started going on about how it was THE god. People made fun of him and his new fake religion and he called down condemnation from his freshly-promoted god on them. At one point he tried to switch to a different god from another town but that didnt work either so he switched back to allah instead. A large number of his raids were to keep his followers happy (and paid) because he tended not to be too smart with the money he got as their leader.
These are not the same.
You've been studying fairy tales.
09-17-2012 | 06:35 AM
#20
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And now this administration has "detained" (or arrested based on how you look at it) the person responsible based on a small group of people half way across the world screaming for blood. Between this is and the flat bullshit with I.C.E. I'm done with politics until we have a candidate with a f*cking backbone. Our country should not be held hostage by the lowest common denominators, be it foreign militias nor domestic deadbeats.
What happen to freedom?
What happened to not negotiating?
America as a whole needs to grow a pair and start acting like a superpower rather than an anemic fat kid.
What happen to freedom?
What happened to not negotiating?
America as a whole needs to grow a pair and start acting like a superpower rather than an anemic fat kid.