faithofadragon

let him keep the sh*t



put a * in the rule books



call it good

Tibbi

I do see articles now that state they have blood samples that are "consistent" with doping. There none of the above that I had seen this morning, but (rules aside) how do you test for doping? Saying he has an elevated red blood count?! I mean, you can throw around the word "consistent" but in all reality how many other causes could produce the same results? Admittedly my knowledge in this filed is slim, but it just seems like he's being used as a whipping boy in the name of the anit-doping.



Again, could be wrong but I'm not reading anything conclusive and I don't see how it could be.

radu_rd2

First of all I think you are using the very broad term "doping" when you actually mean the much more specific "blood doping". Traditionally "doping" means using any kind of banned substance or technique like blood transfusions. Most banned substances can be tested for directly.



Blood doping is hard to detect directly because there is no foreign substance.. But if your blood contains 5x the amount of red cells that normal (severely elevated red count), then yeah, that's a very good indication and it's "consistent" with doping. Not sure why you are outraged at them looking at the red count. How many causes could produce severely elevated red counts? I suspect not very many lol Probably short of some rare diseases which would probably prevent you from even competing in the first place. Also if you are using a substance like EPO or CERA to increase your count, these substances can be detected (there can be slight differences between the natural and the synthetic variants of these substances).



It's similar to how they test women for testosterone. Yeah, it's a natural hormone, and it's natural to have it in certain quantities. But if it's 10x more than normal, GTFO

faithofadragon

not following you around and arguing with you i sware



but cant cancer cause raised red blood cells?

radu_rd2

Probably, so? Are you worried about all the undiagnosed leukemia sufferers who are in good enough shape to compete in a world-class athletic event?



Exceptions are made all the time for diagnosed illnesses and for drugs that are medically prescribed and necessary.



P.S. I think cancer does fit my clause of "Probably short of some rare diseases which would probably prevent you from even competing in the first place"

majik

Radu - I think what he's implying is that the cancer Lance Armstrong had could explain elevated red blood cells that would be consistent with "doping" results.

radu_rd2

Ah, well the key word is "had" in that he did not have cancer when he was winning Tours. Also I really doubt testicular cancer causes elevated red blood cell count (only blood cancers and other blood disorders would do that).



In any case, like I said if findings can be explained by diagnosed illnesses exceptions can be made. I don't think Armstrong ever tried to use that argument haha

Tibbi

Fair enough but given context slightly anal retentive, I can play along though.







I never said I was







I think throwing around the idea he had severalfold the red blood count is a bit extreme IF there is no proof of the sort. Anyway to get numbers like that he'd have to shoot a fairly large amount of highly concentrated blood, which his team would have known about if not caused. If I'm understanding the situation, he is the one suspect, not his training team. (again, not really following the story)







In the name of fairness, if blood results from well after recovery are the suspect batch, that I can easily see as suspect.







I see a big lack of fact here and a lot of speculation, and funny enough that was my original criticism.

Unless we see real facts (which probably exist I'm just too lazy to look for them) I say innocent till proven guilty.

pas1216

Does it suck for Lance - yup



Am I surprised they found an athlete that takes performance enhancing drugs? - not one bit (I think MOST of them do in one way or another)



Do I care - not really

HyundaiKitCoupe

No it's not, but it is possible. Cancer treatment and chemotherapy cost tens of thousands of dollars. In any case, they have 10 witnesses testifying against him.