^ I agree ^

I've also dealt with places that will give a 20% discount if you 'self-pay' instead of go through insurance. Still much higher, though.

 

My pediatrician gives us 25% off for paying them, instead of giving them an insurance co. runaround. Other doctors & health care providers, it is increasingly acceptable to try to negotiate (in varying degrees, depending on a lot of different factors). It seems like a reasonable cost to me, to get a round of immunizations as well as a professional health status evaluation, for $125, once a year. That's around $600 a year if you throw in a couple of sick calls w/ an ear infection. Putting the children on insurance is $400/month through the only plan I could ever hope to afford (through work. Private plans, forget about it).

One problem with the cost of health care is that you might be using a $100,000 CT machine, in half-hour chunks of time. . . that costs, just to pay off the machine.

I think the bigger problem is that we have insurance at all. Nobody knows OR cares what anything costs anymore, so companies and doctors are free (Capitalism = good) to charge whatever the insurance will pay. I heard a guy on the radio this morning that said lost a newborn after 3 days trying to save the baby in the ICU. He paid $10 in co-pays.

If a doctor pays as much to the malpractice insurance company, as he takes home, I think that's a problem too.

 

"I think the bigger problem is that we have insurance at all. "

^ That is just stupid, anyone can get a serious disease like cancer, and 99.99% would never afford the cost of treatment.

 

So that again brings us back to do we regulate what an insurance company can charge? Isnt that government intervention?

Let me throw this out there, instead of a medical insurance for all, why not have a fund that subsidizes the cost of supplies?

If the cost is driven by the price of the machine and everyone agrees healthcare is good, would lowering the cost or taking some of the pass the buck off the backs of the companies, would that make it more affordable?

Providing funding for the tangable assets?

Are we debating the fact that the cost is so high or that some people cant afford or cant get coverage?

 

Radu you missed the point: because the cost insurance pays is unknown to the consumer who pays nearly nothing for even catastrophic illnesses, the costs that insurance co's pay have gone through the roof.

I think it is beyond debate that some people can't afford a "cadillac" insurance plan. Anybody, non-citizens included, can go to an Emergency Department and be treated until they can be discharged, regardless of ability to pay.

IF people were willing to put up with a few thousand dollars out of pocket per year, and get a catastrophic coverage plan to cover cancer/heart attack/stroke etc. (note: TAX FREE Healthcare Savings Account! )
For the really really poor people, this could be a partially-subsidized catastrophic care coverage/HSA plan. No trillion-dollar socialism required.
IF government would let the insurance company & consumer agree what coverages to provide, and at what rate
IF there were some sort of limit on how large a medmal punitive award could be

That would be most of the problem taken care of.

I don't think the equipment will be getting much cheaper due to the low number of machines required. Economy of scale only goes so far.

 

So insurance is so expensive because our nation has become sue happy? Even then where do you draw the line for mal practice and hospital error lawsuits?

Just recently in the news someone went in for gull bladder surgery and the doctor messed up and the dude lost both legs. How much is that worth?

 

There is an actual value you need to pay to make up for it when things go wrong. You have to pay somebody a fat grip for the loss of their legs. THAT is the malpractice award. On top of that, because they are Very Bad People, you PUNISH THEM with a brazillion dollar award. The punitive damages part is the one that needs to be brought under control.

 

Profits are one thing, gross profits are something else. Wanna know why an MRI costs so much? Friend of mine sells medical equipment (MRI machines, X-ray machines, heart/lung machines, etc...). He just traded in his Murcielago for a new SL65 which he promptly "upgraded" with $30K worth of performance parts. No, it's not his only car.

 

. . . and if your insurance company didn't pay so much for the use of his machines . . .

"value is what the market is willing to bear." Insurance reform is necessary because *some* good and services are overpaid-for.

The other side of that coin is the Medicare payment level for office visits: it's what, 1/3 what private companies pay? Ever wonder why doctors don't like to accept Medicare? And do you really think, once EVERYbody has Medicare on Steroids, the private-pay-only doctors will be allowed to continue to charge whatever they can get?