Guess What Happened!.....
10-31-2007, 07:21 PM
#22
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i hooked up my turbo timer to acc. so it just keeps radio on and stuff for 45 seconds, but not engine.. nana.gif lmao.gif i never fixed it.
alright, i was thinking the bearing may have gotten coked.. but prob not if you let it cool down all the time.
alright, i was thinking the bearing may have gotten coked.. but prob not if you let it cool down all the time.
10-31-2007, 09:07 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa/St Petersburg
Posts: 4,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: Turbocharged 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
Hey, sorry i couldnt put the tech side of the story in earlier i was at work.
Yah so she came home and smoke was pouring out of the hood and the exhaust. I look under the hood and there was oil drizzling (not dripping) out of the compressor housing of the turbo, and the smoke indicated either coolant or oil or both in the exhaust.
The original turbo blew because the fag that installed it let the return line kink thinking that was ok, obviously this didn't let the oil drain, but the thing never boosted right out of the gate (speed-factor special) so given these two factors it was no surprise the turbo went as quick as it did.
The second turbo was from bryan when he upgraded to the GT35R, he installed it and tapped the head for the feed, hooked up coolant lines to help with cooling, and installed a perfectly routed SS braided return line.
And the turbo boosted fine after we installed it on her car, it originally encountered cut off because the crap autometer told us we were getting 1psi of boost, when in reality it was around 9 psi. After we got a better boost gauge and turned the boost down to 3 for safety, it boosted fine.
Then the P0343 CMP nightmare, which nobody could figure out, which drove her to haltech.
The haltech allowed the car to drive, but didnt agree with the automatic, so we swapped it.
The car drove fine, it had no power but it drove smooth and worked as a mode of transportation, we took it to the dyno after maybe driving the car for 400 miles with that tune, he told us the timing was too far advanced 30 degrees, and brought the car from 30 whp (YES 30) to 90 whp, which is about stock power (about) but said the car refused to boost. Said either the turbo was blown or there was some huge boost leak.
But the car drove like stock again so we didnt care, i looked for a boost leak (found some small ones) but the car still didnt want to boost, if i took it on US 19 and put it at 3000rpms (where the turbo should spool) and hit the gas, it would produce a pound of boost after a second and then gradually (and i mean gradually) pick up almost 4 psi but it didnt feel like we were boosting, aside from the boost gauge saying 4 psi it would just accelerate like it was stock.
Then this.
I'm assuming the super advanced ignition somehow over heated the turbo or somehow exerted some abuse on it and the PVC being blocked was all the turbo needed to go kapoot.
I have some OBX (or similar) headers (that i almost sold) back in NY, ill get my folks to ship em to me so we can take the car back to N/A while we figure out the future of the car. Meanwhile she'll get another beater, which is always a good idea anyway.
What sucks is Swifts father thinks its retarded to put any money into any car (esspecially a hyundai), and Selinas car keeps giving him opportunities to say "i told you so"
I try and explain to him that this amount of trouble isn't normal, and to look at my car which has had significantly less problems, but he still says "piece of shit"
lol...f*cker
lmao.gif
Yah so she came home and smoke was pouring out of the hood and the exhaust. I look under the hood and there was oil drizzling (not dripping) out of the compressor housing of the turbo, and the smoke indicated either coolant or oil or both in the exhaust.
The original turbo blew because the fag that installed it let the return line kink thinking that was ok, obviously this didn't let the oil drain, but the thing never boosted right out of the gate (speed-factor special) so given these two factors it was no surprise the turbo went as quick as it did.
The second turbo was from bryan when he upgraded to the GT35R, he installed it and tapped the head for the feed, hooked up coolant lines to help with cooling, and installed a perfectly routed SS braided return line.
And the turbo boosted fine after we installed it on her car, it originally encountered cut off because the crap autometer told us we were getting 1psi of boost, when in reality it was around 9 psi. After we got a better boost gauge and turned the boost down to 3 for safety, it boosted fine.
Then the P0343 CMP nightmare, which nobody could figure out, which drove her to haltech.
The haltech allowed the car to drive, but didnt agree with the automatic, so we swapped it.
The car drove fine, it had no power but it drove smooth and worked as a mode of transportation, we took it to the dyno after maybe driving the car for 400 miles with that tune, he told us the timing was too far advanced 30 degrees, and brought the car from 30 whp (YES 30) to 90 whp, which is about stock power (about) but said the car refused to boost. Said either the turbo was blown or there was some huge boost leak.
But the car drove like stock again so we didnt care, i looked for a boost leak (found some small ones) but the car still didnt want to boost, if i took it on US 19 and put it at 3000rpms (where the turbo should spool) and hit the gas, it would produce a pound of boost after a second and then gradually (and i mean gradually) pick up almost 4 psi but it didnt feel like we were boosting, aside from the boost gauge saying 4 psi it would just accelerate like it was stock.
Then this.
I'm assuming the super advanced ignition somehow over heated the turbo or somehow exerted some abuse on it and the PVC being blocked was all the turbo needed to go kapoot.
I have some OBX (or similar) headers (that i almost sold) back in NY, ill get my folks to ship em to me so we can take the car back to N/A while we figure out the future of the car. Meanwhile she'll get another beater, which is always a good idea anyway.
What sucks is Swifts father thinks its retarded to put any money into any car (esspecially a hyundai), and Selinas car keeps giving him opportunities to say "i told you so"
I try and explain to him that this amount of trouble isn't normal, and to look at my car which has had significantly less problems, but he still says "piece of shit"
lol...f*cker
lmao.gif
10-31-2007, 09:20 PM
#24
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you know whats sad...
i actually read all of that..
anyway, at least now i know that the 1st turbo being blown was not related to the second turbo being blown..
did you ever take off the intake pipe to check and see if the turbine spun freely or had any slop after the whole ignition ordeal..
how did the ignition get messed up by 30 degrees?
autometer FTL.
im not understanding how the turbo just didn't spool. which is why i was wondering if you guys ever checked how the turbine was spinning/ if it was binding up/ slop / etc. i mean if there was exhaust pressure on the turbine that entire time, simple mechanix would make it spool up.
if there was that BIG of a boost leak, you should be able to hear it.
i could somehow see the over heating problem, but if it was over heated, it seems like it would REALLY impede exhaust flow since the turbine would be stuck.. any chance of the feed line being plugged up with some gunk..
sorry for long post, just trying to help out.
i actually read all of that..
anyway, at least now i know that the 1st turbo being blown was not related to the second turbo being blown..
did you ever take off the intake pipe to check and see if the turbine spun freely or had any slop after the whole ignition ordeal..
how did the ignition get messed up by 30 degrees?
autometer FTL.
im not understanding how the turbo just didn't spool. which is why i was wondering if you guys ever checked how the turbine was spinning/ if it was binding up/ slop / etc. i mean if there was exhaust pressure on the turbine that entire time, simple mechanix would make it spool up.
if there was that BIG of a boost leak, you should be able to hear it.
i could somehow see the over heating problem, but if it was over heated, it seems like it would REALLY impede exhaust flow since the turbine would be stuck.. any chance of the feed line being plugged up with some gunk..
sorry for long post, just trying to help out.
10-31-2007, 09:31 PM
#25
Moderator
First, yes it could have been the timing.
But.....you also could have damaged the seals when you were trying to boost but "seeing" nothing. Just because your IM isn't seeing boost, doesn't mean you're not (over)spooling the turbo beyond what you want it to. That will burn up the seals. Since your wastegate isn't seeing boost, it's not limiting the rotation of the turbo.
I also don't trust the head as an oil feed. I always get too irratic readings from there. Sometimes it's way to low. I prefer to put it right ater the oil filter with a sandwich plate and a restrictor.
But.....you also could have damaged the seals when you were trying to boost but "seeing" nothing. Just because your IM isn't seeing boost, doesn't mean you're not (over)spooling the turbo beyond what you want it to. That will burn up the seals. Since your wastegate isn't seeing boost, it's not limiting the rotation of the turbo.
I also don't trust the head as an oil feed. I always get too irratic readings from there. Sometimes it's way to low. I prefer to put it right ater the oil filter with a sandwich plate and a restrictor.
10-31-2007, 10:11 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa/St Petersburg
Posts: 4,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: Turbocharged 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
Yah sorry about the long post, but you gotta give the details in this kinda situation lol
I actually had checked the turbo like the day before for play and to make sure it was spinning, it spun just fine and the turbo did have a bit of play, but nothing that would make you go "oh sh!t"
Jon what you said makes perfect sense, but i couldnt find a boost leak anywhere, all of the couplers (from turbo to TB) were secure, intercooler was undamaged, and all vacuum lines were attached or plugged. unless somehow the PVC system was leaking boost?
Maybe you have some sort of pressure problem in your head jon, my head regulates the oil pressure well, i have a gauge mounted where my cigarette lighter was and i can watch it while i do everything, 40-50 psi upon startup slowly decreasing to about 20 psi when cruising at operating temp, Ive never seen any erratic changes in pressure.
the timing was off that much because i think there was a problem with the timing map when we tried to load bryans map on there and it just ended up using the base map.
What about this, just a hypothesis as to why it couldnt boost much, the bearing was damaged due to heat. The turbo can spin slowly without much resistance allowing the car to drive normal, but when the turbo attempts to spool it experiances alot more heat and resistance due to the bad bearing not allowing it to go very far into positive pressure? I may be stretching here but i'm just trying to think outside the box...
I am however, starting to believe in curses. lol
I actually had checked the turbo like the day before for play and to make sure it was spinning, it spun just fine and the turbo did have a bit of play, but nothing that would make you go "oh sh!t"
Jon what you said makes perfect sense, but i couldnt find a boost leak anywhere, all of the couplers (from turbo to TB) were secure, intercooler was undamaged, and all vacuum lines were attached or plugged. unless somehow the PVC system was leaking boost?
Maybe you have some sort of pressure problem in your head jon, my head regulates the oil pressure well, i have a gauge mounted where my cigarette lighter was and i can watch it while i do everything, 40-50 psi upon startup slowly decreasing to about 20 psi when cruising at operating temp, Ive never seen any erratic changes in pressure.
the timing was off that much because i think there was a problem with the timing map when we tried to load bryans map on there and it just ended up using the base map.
What about this, just a hypothesis as to why it couldnt boost much, the bearing was damaged due to heat. The turbo can spin slowly without much resistance allowing the car to drive normal, but when the turbo attempts to spool it experiances alot more heat and resistance due to the bad bearing not allowing it to go very far into positive pressure? I may be stretching here but i'm just trying to think outside the box...
I am however, starting to believe in curses. lol
11-01-2007, 12:21 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,754
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: 1997 Tiburon
After reading through this thread, I've come to a couple conclusions.
Hopefully your boost gauge was reading correctly.
Also, have you pulled out the spark plugs and inspected them? You can learn a lot from how the engine has been running from just the spark plugs.
When you checked for boost leaks, did you use a boost leak tester and pressurized the pipes/im/vacuum lines /etc?
If the car was tuned properly, and your boost gauge was accurate...wouldn't even have to be the best tune, than it's the turbo that failed because of its condition it was in.
Do she have an EGT gauge? Do you know what temps your turbo was seeing?
Also, they oil lines may seem in good condition, but are they clogged? Take your return line off and blow air through it, do the same with the feed.
If everything is sound, no major tuning problem, no over boosting, no vacuum leaks, all return lines flow properly, no high egt temps, than it has to of been the condition of the turbo.
Anytime you get a used turbo, it's probably beat the shit out of, so I always take it apart and check things over. Most of the time use a rebuild kit. Btw, if you can feel play (in and out) that's not good.
Alex, if you'd like, take the turbo off and send it to me, I'll take it apart and have a look at it for ya. I'll let you know how the turbo is, and why it might of failed if it has failed. Hell, if you want get a rebuild kit for it, i'll fix it up and all you'll have to do is rebalance it.
Hopefully your boost gauge was reading correctly.
Also, have you pulled out the spark plugs and inspected them? You can learn a lot from how the engine has been running from just the spark plugs.
When you checked for boost leaks, did you use a boost leak tester and pressurized the pipes/im/vacuum lines /etc?
If the car was tuned properly, and your boost gauge was accurate...wouldn't even have to be the best tune, than it's the turbo that failed because of its condition it was in.
Do she have an EGT gauge? Do you know what temps your turbo was seeing?
Also, they oil lines may seem in good condition, but are they clogged? Take your return line off and blow air through it, do the same with the feed.
If everything is sound, no major tuning problem, no over boosting, no vacuum leaks, all return lines flow properly, no high egt temps, than it has to of been the condition of the turbo.
Anytime you get a used turbo, it's probably beat the shit out of, so I always take it apart and check things over. Most of the time use a rebuild kit. Btw, if you can feel play (in and out) that's not good.
Alex, if you'd like, take the turbo off and send it to me, I'll take it apart and have a look at it for ya. I'll let you know how the turbo is, and why it might of failed if it has failed. Hell, if you want get a rebuild kit for it, i'll fix it up and all you'll have to do is rebalance it.