Fahrenheit 9/11
06-25-2004, 12:52 PM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Edison, New Jersey
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I apologize for my verbal attack on Canadians, i retract my comment, and am very sorry for making it. It jsut pisses me off when people make ignorant comment regarding issues they only know one side to.
06-25-2004, 12:54 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico, USA.
Posts: 34,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon, 2004 Kia Sorento, 2010 Kia Soul
So you are blaming Bush for the bad intelligence he was given. You going to blame him for 9/11 next?
Okay Rocky, you tell me, why didn't we take him out of power in 1991? Let's see if you know the real answer. Or ANYONE for that matter.
Fortunately, he doesn't need to convince you of anything. The reasons we went to turn Iraq into a democracy were the ones he told us. Links to Terrorist activities, stores and the ability to make large amounts of chemical and biological weapons, the willingness to use Chemical and Biological weapons on his own people, and the threats of him disseminating those abilities or supplies and supporting their use against US.
As for WWII, that's well known, and you know what's funny? The seperationist society we were then is what folks want us to be now. Let the worlds problems solve themselfs. Last time Pearl Harbor happened, this time, after the Clinton Debacle, we were seperationists again, barely doing anything but minding our own country, 9/11 happened.
Hmm...
Okay Rocky, you tell me, why didn't we take him out of power in 1991? Let's see if you know the real answer. Or ANYONE for that matter.
Fortunately, he doesn't need to convince you of anything. The reasons we went to turn Iraq into a democracy were the ones he told us. Links to Terrorist activities, stores and the ability to make large amounts of chemical and biological weapons, the willingness to use Chemical and Biological weapons on his own people, and the threats of him disseminating those abilities or supplies and supporting their use against US.
As for WWII, that's well known, and you know what's funny? The seperationist society we were then is what folks want us to be now. Let the worlds problems solve themselfs. Last time Pearl Harbor happened, this time, after the Clinton Debacle, we were seperationists again, barely doing anything but minding our own country, 9/11 happened.
Hmm...
06-25-2004, 01:02 PM
#53
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɯooɹpǝq ɹnoʎ
Posts: 13,943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: ǝdnoɔ sısǝuǝƃ
From what I've heard (Gulf War):
We didn't take Hussein out of power because that's not what we set out to do in the first place. Bush Sr. had set down a list of what was going to happen. We accomplished our mission and pulled out, Just as Bush had said we would. People were mad that he didn't go further, but he had already stated what he would do, and followed through with it.
That's what I've heard debated several times. Bush Sr. said, "we're gonna do this, accomplish this, and then we'll do this" and that's what happened. We didn't set out to overthrow their government.
Tell me REDZ, since you're much older and wiser, what your take on the "real reason" is?
We didn't take Hussein out of power because that's not what we set out to do in the first place. Bush Sr. had set down a list of what was going to happen. We accomplished our mission and pulled out, Just as Bush had said we would. People were mad that he didn't go further, but he had already stated what he would do, and followed through with it.
That's what I've heard debated several times. Bush Sr. said, "we're gonna do this, accomplish this, and then we'll do this" and that's what happened. We didn't set out to overthrow their government.
Tell me REDZ, since you're much older and wiser, what your take on the "real reason" is?
06-25-2004, 01:48 PM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Clovis, NM
Posts: 7,063
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: 2010 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
From what I remember US Snipers had Hussein in there sites during the first gulf war. We didn't take him out because that is not what we went to do. The US was sent over to push Iraq out of Kuwait and restore order, that is what we did.
06-25-2004, 01:57 PM
#55
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɯooɹpǝq ɹnoʎ
Posts: 13,943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: ǝdnoɔ sısǝuǝƃ
Has anyone heard the recent complaints that Clinton had the ability to take out Bin-Laden back in 98-2000? He didn't give the orders even when the CIA approached him saying they had the opportunity. I heard there were three separate incidents. (it was either Saddam or Bin Laden, can't remember, but Fox News has been all over it the last few days)
06-25-2004, 02:57 PM
#56
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mass
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: 97 Tiburon
I first wanna say good job w/ this thread. the bashing has been kept to a minimum and there weren't too many off topic replies.
there are a couple things that i'm sure everyone can agree with; no matter who's side you are on:
1. September 11th was inevitable. it wouldn't have mattered who the president was. It was gonna happen regardless. we were caught w/ our pants around our ankles
2. After said attack, the economy would have fallen no matter who was in office. it's just the way things go
3. REDZ statements are prolly the most accurate.
Michael Moore has said that he is doing this project to "inform the united states." thats not what he's doing. he did this project to get the president out of office. He has no desire to inform...since his words are chopped up to make it look like George Bush hasn't done the best damn job he could.
this movie is a joke. it's too bad this ass of a man is gonna make millions off of it
there are a couple things that i'm sure everyone can agree with; no matter who's side you are on:
1. September 11th was inevitable. it wouldn't have mattered who the president was. It was gonna happen regardless. we were caught w/ our pants around our ankles
2. After said attack, the economy would have fallen no matter who was in office. it's just the way things go
3. REDZ statements are prolly the most accurate.
Michael Moore has said that he is doing this project to "inform the united states." thats not what he's doing. he did this project to get the president out of office. He has no desire to inform...since his words are chopped up to make it look like George Bush hasn't done the best damn job he could.
this movie is a joke. it's too bad this ass of a man is gonna make millions off of it
06-25-2004, 03:34 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 2,436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^Shark01^^ good job starting a political debate on an automotive forum :-)
good point java, but in actuality.....we really did not know if it was Saddam or not.....and i've also heard that it was more the only a couple of times that the snipers had Saddam or one of his 20 look-a-likes in the sites. We did the right thing by not ASSASINATING HIM....that would have pissed off tons more of the terrorist groups than are already pissed, also how would we have known if we had really gotten him?
You know the media would have jumped all other that.....then could very well have made themselves look like asses, b/c of it. not that they don't do that on pretty much a weekly basis anyways......
Plus we would be turning our back on a INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENT that the US signed, banning assasination of members of other countries gov'ts.
shark01 wrote :
That blows.....G-dub has done the best that HE could.....but i don't think it was enough......
I mean just look at all the hype about going to the moon and mars in january......honestly how much have you heard about it in the last two months....Unless you like astronomy (like me) probably NOTHING...in the last couple of months it just seems that nothing has been done to get the balls rolling on that......and thats this administrations fault......it was a great speech (its too bad none of the recent presidents have been good writers, while in office, it would just make me so much happier to have our presidents write thier own speeches, and have a little pride and heart in them)....and yes both of the dates set are a long way away....BUT still (at least on this topic) all the administration did was blow a lot of hot air.
IF this was a serious goal for this country it would not have taken NASA f***ing 6 months to finally say "OK we need to change some things here" which has only happened in the last two weeks. f***, Nasa is STILL FOLLOWING THE PROTOCOLS PUT IN PLACE DURING THE MERCURY AND APOLLO MISSIONS. WTF.
9/11 and the "War on Terror", which we will NEVER win anyways (and has been going on since the beginning of human civilization), aside,
I think this whole administration has been nothing more than a pile of bullshit. A bunch of hot air shot out to please the ignorant masses, while not much of what has said will be done, has been.
But hey, thats politics. evil.gif
QUOTE (javageek)
From what I remember US Snipers had Hussein in there sites during the first gulf war. We didn't take him out because that is not what we went to do. The US was sent over to push Iraq out of Kuwait and restore order, that is what we did.
good point java, but in actuality.....we really did not know if it was Saddam or not.....and i've also heard that it was more the only a couple of times that the snipers had Saddam or one of his 20 look-a-likes in the sites. We did the right thing by not ASSASINATING HIM....that would have pissed off tons more of the terrorist groups than are already pissed, also how would we have known if we had really gotten him?
You know the media would have jumped all other that.....then could very well have made themselves look like asses, b/c of it. not that they don't do that on pretty much a weekly basis anyways......
Plus we would be turning our back on a INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENT that the US signed, banning assasination of members of other countries gov'ts.
shark01 wrote :
QUOTE
since his words are chopped up to make it look like George Bush hasn't done the best damn job he could
That blows.....G-dub has done the best that HE could.....but i don't think it was enough......
I mean just look at all the hype about going to the moon and mars in january......honestly how much have you heard about it in the last two months....Unless you like astronomy (like me) probably NOTHING...in the last couple of months it just seems that nothing has been done to get the balls rolling on that......and thats this administrations fault......it was a great speech (its too bad none of the recent presidents have been good writers, while in office, it would just make me so much happier to have our presidents write thier own speeches, and have a little pride and heart in them)....and yes both of the dates set are a long way away....BUT still (at least on this topic) all the administration did was blow a lot of hot air.
IF this was a serious goal for this country it would not have taken NASA f***ing 6 months to finally say "OK we need to change some things here" which has only happened in the last two weeks. f***, Nasa is STILL FOLLOWING THE PROTOCOLS PUT IN PLACE DURING THE MERCURY AND APOLLO MISSIONS. WTF.
9/11 and the "War on Terror", which we will NEVER win anyways (and has been going on since the beginning of human civilization), aside,
I think this whole administration has been nothing more than a pile of bullshit. A bunch of hot air shot out to please the ignorant masses, while not much of what has said will be done, has been.
But hey, thats politics. evil.gif
06-25-2004, 03:45 PM
#59
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɯooɹpǝq ɹnoʎ
Posts: 13,943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: ǝdnoɔ sısǝuǝƃ
Correct me if I'm wrong because I know very little about WWI... but wasn't that started with the assassination of a huge politica leader? Maybe they were trying to avoid starting another world war, although I don't know who would have been against us at the time (besides maybe France :x ) .
06-25-2004, 04:03 PM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico, USA.
Posts: 34,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon, 2004 Kia Sorento, 2010 Kia Soul
QUOTE (majikTib)
From what I've heard (Gulf War):
We didn't take Hussein out of power because that's not what we set out to do in the first place. Bush Sr. had set down a list of what was going to happen. We accomplished our mission and pulled out, Just as Bush had said we would. People were mad that he didn't go further, but he had already stated what he would do, and followed through with it.
That's what I've heard debated several times. Bush Sr. said, "we're gonna do this, accomplish this, and then we'll do this" and that's what happened. We didn't set out to overthrow their government.
We didn't take Hussein out of power because that's not what we set out to do in the first place. Bush Sr. had set down a list of what was going to happen. We accomplished our mission and pulled out, Just as Bush had said we would. People were mad that he didn't go further, but he had already stated what he would do, and followed through with it.
That's what I've heard debated several times. Bush Sr. said, "we're gonna do this, accomplish this, and then we'll do this" and that's what happened. We didn't set out to overthrow their government.
QUOTE (javageek)
From what I remember US Snipers had Hussein in there sites during the first gulf war. We didn't take him out because that is not what we went to do. The US was sent over to push Iraq out of Kuwait and restore order, that is what we did.
That's exactly why my friends, fantastic descriptions. Java, way to keep it short. LOL
The mission of Desert Storm/Shield was one to get Iraq out of Kuwait. We pushed them back, crushed his army, and let him know that in 4 days, we could be at his door. They surrendered and backed off. We accomplished our mission, so we couldn't start new stuff without major public backlash. Granted, if Bush had been reelected, we prolly would have gone right back in and finished them off in the following 2 years.
QUOTE (majikTib)
Has anyone heard the recent complaints that Clinton had the ability to take out Bin-Laden back in 98-2000? He didn't give the orders even when the CIA approached him saying they had the opportunity. I heard there were three separate incidents. (it was either Saddam or Bin Laden, can't remember, but Fox News has been all over it the last few days)
Hadn't heard about it, but I suspected it. The Clinton Regime's policy was hit them with long range missiles (Cowardly to the Islamic folks), and say everything was fine. Draft dodging cowardly president.
QUOTE (Shark01Racing)
1. September 11th was inevitable. it wouldn't have mattered who the president was. It was gonna happen regardless. we were caught w/ our pants around our ankles
2. After said attack, the economy would have fallen no matter who was in office. it's just the way things go
3. REDZ statements are prolly the most accurate.
2. After said attack, the economy would have fallen no matter who was in office. it's just the way things go
3. REDZ statements are prolly the most accurate.
1. Very true. Very very true.
2. Also true, as that's what those successful attacks were designed to do. But the problem is the Islamic society thinks we are just materialistic capitalists, that the loss of money and business would drive us to anarchy. Guess they didn't watch the History channel either eh? Even Admrial Yamimmoto in WWII said that "It's better not to attack the United States, let the sleeping bear sleep". They didn't listen and made him attack. Who doesn't have a military anymore? Anyways, the financial market is back above where it was, not long afterwards. In reality, what did 9/11 affect me monitarily? I couldn't pay my Sprint bill over the phone. That's it.
Lastly, WWI was started by the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.
See why we don't assassinate folks?
I think Bush, whom I was very wary about at first, has done a remarkable job in what he's done. Read a few Tom Clancy novels, he Jack Ryan can barely do better under similar circumstances.