Hobgoblin

Alright... I guess Ill get in on this before it closes... I was gonna stay out of it... but the Iraq issue came up. How can it be said that Iraq had nothing to do with it? It was proven that they supplied not only weapons to Al Quida and Taliban forces... and funded them as well!! How is this "not involved"?
Maybe I missed something here or there... but being in the military and loosing a long time friend in Afganistan, I may be a bit Biased... I think we should blow them strait to Hades along with this Micheal Moore!!!!

REDZMAN

This won't be closed, if it doesn't get out of hand.

It hasn't yet.

rockym20

As for Iraq, I will say this - as much as I disagreed with the war there, I applaud the American government in that it is staying there and trying to sort things out. Past governments (and not just American) have started wars, and then just pulled out, leaving a huge mess.

I won't disagree that Hussein was a bad guy, but the problem is the world is full of bad guys in power who kill innocent citizens. And there are a lot worse out there than Hussein was. What about the genocide that goes on periodically in half the African countries? If the States is going to be the world's policeman, then why aren't there troops there? While you may agree with the war on Iraq for altruistic reasons, the reality is that the gov't isn't going to war to help the Iraqi people - they are going to war for selfish reasons. Its funny how many people forget that it wasn't too long ago that Hussein was a friend and ally of the States, and yet his methods didn't change between then and now. America has helped topple democracies in countries that weren't friendly with them and helped put in horrible dicators who are friendly - so don't try to tell me the government is doing it because it is the right thing to do. You may feel it is the right thing to do and support the gov't for it, but next time you see a genocide in Congo or someplace like that on BBC (I doubt CNN would show it, unless the US gov't makes a big deal about it) , you better support the US troops going there too.

Redz, I had to laugh when I read that you feel that the war on Iraq is the war on terror because Bush singled them out. Hell, it still makes me laugh. Anyone who believes everything their leader says is naive. The real war on terror is taking place in countries that are allies of the States - Saudi (especially!!), Spain, Germany, India, you name it. Even Canada has its share of terrorist problems, though the country is rarely targeted. Bush couldn't exactly go on TV and say that it was the fault of Saudi dissidents or Canada's immigration policies, even though to a certain degree it was.

Anyways, as Forrest Gump says "Thats all I have to say about that" (or something like that).

REDZMAN

Rocky, you can disagree with the war there all you want, as far as I remember, the Can's didn't help out with that one.

Who's out there that's worse than Hussein was? Who? N. Korea is one, but you have no idea the hell that would be fighting in Korea. We could run thru them, and win, without too much difficulty, but there would be hundreds of thousands dead.

Why aren't there troops where? Tell me? What about the troops that went into the Ivory Coast? Hmmm, that's Africa. We also sent in folks with the UN troops that went into the Congo. So? Oh, you forgot that eh? Of course.

The US Government didn't go to war, they sent our forces to undo a great injustice that we have been ridiculed for a decade about. On why we left Saddam in power. Again, you haven't said a word about the atrocities that Saddam had committed and ordered. Why not? Because it's not popular and doesn't lend power to your argument. We didn't have enough reason before 9/11 to go back in there and finish that rat bastard, but we did afterwards. Iraq and Iran were both friends of ours in a way at one time or another, but things change. The Russians used to be our enemy, remember? Of course not. Why would you?

I don't belive everything my leader tells me. I just know things. Iraq pushed for years, kept on pushing and pushing. The UN wouldn't do anything about it. So what, we just let this guy sit there? After what Afganistan did to us when we just ignored them? The war in Iraq did have to do with Terror. You just don't understand. They had chemical and biological weapons and facilities. They were working on enriching uranium. They killed hundreds and thousands of their own people using chemical weapons. They threatened to use them again. They lied on what they had left and did have connections with terrorist countries and parties.

But of course, you'd rather have us sit back, lock up our borders, watch the world from under a bedsheet, and hope something doesn't happen.

Coward.

Arch93086

You also have to remember Redz, that we went into Somalia, which is another African country. Very well spoken and thought out. I agree with you 100%

majik

I don't have much to say, mostly because REDZ already said it all. Rocky, your post was full of incorrect information. Sorry to say it, but you need to get a little more history in your head. You're doing good, just fill in the blanks.

Do you have any idea how World War II started? Or how Churchill was involved? Or even how fast it went from mediocre things to full out havoc? We can't really rely on the UN for much :roll:
Oh boy, this shows your ignorance on the issues. Please elaborate on ANYONE who is at all worse than Hussein? Hussein has killed more of his own people than there are people living in Africa! (that's slightly exagerrated but my point still stands)

Hitler, Moose-uuhh-lean-E (sp? tongue.gif ), yeah they may have been worse than Hussein, but what about present times?

REDZMAN

Arch, very true. Somallia. But we pulled out of that one. Look at how we look because of that one.

Thanks Clinton.

Ass.

Look how good that country is doing.

Arch93086

Yeah Clinton really did screw us and them over on that one. I'm suprised he got re-elected after the public saw video of them dragging soilder down the street dead. But we had Dole going for us so I guess that's why Clinton won. He had about as much carsima going for him than a dirty laundry pile.

rockym20

Okay, let me clarify something. I disagree with the war on Iraq for the reasons stated by the Bush administration. Despite that, I think that Canada should have shown more support for the American gov't in this situation. Maybe not direct combat troops (not that we have many anyways), but even medical units or something else. Although we did support the US in a round-about way - we increased our troop commitments in Afghanistan substantially so a lot of your guys there could go to Iraq, I think the Canadian gov't should have shown a more vocal support to the effort. It didn't make much sense to me that we wouldn't support our closest ally, especially when there is a president who didn't know much about foreign diplomacy and intercountry relations (he thought that Mexico was the US's largest trading partner, when it is actually like 3rd or 4th, and substantially below Canada and Japan in terms of actual $), but then again I'm not a politician.

Am I glad Hussein is out of power? You bet. In fact, I think it should have been done during Desert Storm in 1991. I just don't believe Bush, nor his motives and he has done nothing to convince me otherwise. It is the hypocrisy of the situation and his politics that bothers me.

I don't feel like getting into a history debate here - I have way too much work to do today. Just remember that WWII had gone on for 2 years before the States committed troops to the war (they had supported the Allied countries in other ways before that). If it hadn't been for Pearl Harbor, it would have been much longer (if ever) before the gov't did commit.

Arch93086

The Allies were pressuring the States to enter the war. They were on the verge of entering, Pearl Harbor just pissed them off to do it.