Are there protests in your area? Down here in Dallas all the high schools are having walk outs today, all the Latinos are walking to train stations to go to downtown city hall and protest.

Personally I'm all for it, young people standing up for what they think is right. So rare for kids to care about anything usually. And I'm against bill 4437 myself. I would join them, but I've got a presentation in philosophy class today....... over bill 4437.

 

I can understand peoples objections on both sides.

On one side, people are saying Immigrants shouldnt be allowed here because it takes away jobs from citizens.

On the other side, this is the land of the free and people should be able to have the opportunity to come and make a life for themselves here if they wanted.

I guess I dont really have a decision on it, but I agree that its nice to see young people standing up for something that they believe in. smile.gif

 

This issue isn't about immigrants. It's about illegal immigrants. It's a whole other issue. If you immigrate from Mexico through a legal process, more power to you. If you cross a river to get here you're a lousy criminal and need to be dealt with as one. No exceptions. It speaks volumes about your character to be willing to cross illegally into a country instead of go through the existing legal channels, and if you're willing to do that I don't want you here. You want people to stop seeing you as criminals or looking down on you? Immigrate legally. Many of my friends did just that. It seriously pisses me off to see ignorant people not seperating the two terms "immigrant" and "illegal immigrant". I have no problem with immigrants.

 

Funny.. No one ever gave the people who came on the Niña, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria permission to enter...

Most people came here illegally... Do a bit of research and youll see.

I think the bill is retarded...

They need to strenghten the boarders before they do something like this.

Im curious what doctors will do in this type of situation. They swore an oath to help people... yet with this law, helping an injured illegal immigrant could possibly send them to jail...

 

^^^ Man I was gonna say the same friggin thing. This was not our country, we took it.
And 187, you might think differently if you didn't live in the "Land of the Free".
My biggest problem with the whole issue and I supervise 5 restaurants with over 200 employees (90% of which are from Brazil) is that the only reason these jobs are available to these people is that many Americans are spoiled and lazy. These jobs that the immigrants are filling are jobs that many Americans would never "stoop low enough" to take. The American people created this situation and now they want to bitch about it. I don't think it is right for companies to employ illegal immigrants, but no company is going to turn away people willing to work for minimum wage when it's the difference between staying in or out of business.
If the American people want to fix this problem, then some of them need to get off their lazy asses and get a job. Stop collecting welfare and/or unemployment mad.gif

 

^^I don't have any problem with you employing legal immigrants. A lot of my best friends are legal immigrants, as a matter of fact. It's all about the illegal immigrants. Once you've immigrated legally, you're an American just like anyone else in my eyes. I'm not looking to "kick out all the Mexicans" or whatever, I've just got a huge problem with illegal immigration. Also, I don't care what people outside the "land of the free" think about it. That is not my problem. Fix your country, don't just take it upon yourself to come make mine worse. If you like my house better should you just be able to walk in and start sleeping on my couch? I'd shoot your ass. I feel the same way about this subject. Violated.

I don't care what you think, Americans will "stoop that low" if you pay them more. It's simple supply and demand. You could charge more at your restaurant and employ people born in the US. I wouldn't work for minimum wage at any job permanently because I have more drive than that. Why the hell would I want to take a crappy paying job that sucks when I can do better? I'm not too lazy, I would do a horrible job (and have before) if I got paid good enough. And I have also hauled wheelbarrow loads of concrete in the hot sun for a living for minimum wage when I couldn't find a better job. I'm lazy because I knew I could do better and made something of myself? If you ask me, people content with working a crappy job for crappy pay as a career are the lazy ones, no matter how much work they do. Plus if they are an illegal immigrant they're that much lazier even for not bothering to come here legally, which can be done, and opens up many more opportunities for them.

Greedy American employers created the problem by hiring illegal immigrants to do work. I agree 100%. I think (like has been proposed) that there should be a huge penalty for hiring illegals. There is no good excuse. In my eyes it's plain evil to take advantage of people like that. If we find we truly need the workers set it up so that they can come here legally. I'm not against the people coming here, but you've got to play by our rules. If you're just like "Screw your rules, we're just coming in!", I don't want you here.

And white people didn't immigrate into a country illegally with Columbus. There was no country. I am a large portion Native American, and I'm not bitter about it. The Indians were too disorganized to beat the white man despite 100 to 1 ratio, it's their fault. I suppose you would have preferred we just let them sit here taking up space and killing each other still to this day. That would have made a lot of sense. The world doesn't need two Africas. The people were savages and we took this land for the good of humanity. People suffered, but it was no worse than what was going on around the world at the time.

BTW they took the part about not allowing you to help an illegal immigrant out of the bill. Illegal immigrants (and other deadbeats of miscellaneous origin) not bothering to pay their medical bills is why I can't afford to insure my family. It would cost me $900/month to buy medical insurance for my wife and daughter through work. If people (ALL people) paid their damn bills we wouldn't have that problem. I don't care if they're sick, let them die. I don't want to pay for their healthcare. I'm not paying for the healthcare of the people suffering in Africa, and neither are you so you don't care that much either. It doesn't make sense to make hospitals go bankrupt from taking care of people that won't pay.

 

-The immigrants didn't create the problem, the United States did. Big business runs the US. Not the politicians, the Government or the President. It's all about the money. If you sell something for more than what it cost to make it, that's called profit. That is the model for ANY business. Oh and by the way I'd say that probably if you took everything out of your house that was not manufactured in the US, you'd be living in a cardboard box and you wouldn't be driving a Hyundai.

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Hypocrite!! I'm looking for a new house. Maybe I'm more "organized" than you.

-Sure we can pay everyone $20 an hour regardless of the how "low" the job is. I hope you don't mind paying $10 for you next McDonald's cheeseburger. Who do you think pays these peoples wages? You do! Try running your own business sometime and see how well you pay your employees.

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Not employers. Greedy Americans. There are already huge penalties for employing illegals, but the Government does not enforce them.(See first statement). These people in many cases are not being taken advantage of. You should see what they had to deal with where they came from. That's being taken advantage of!

-Lazy teachers, lazy policeman, lazy fireman....

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Do you have any idea how much it cost to become a legal citizen? It ain't free. Thousands of dollars in legal fees.

-.
Get an injury or illness and have to foot your own medical bills and then bitch about other people not being able to pay their bills. The immigrants may be part of the problem, but only a small part of the healthcare issues in the US. Ain't no hospitals going bankrupt from illegal immigrants!
Oh and if you can't afford insurance through your work, then you must not be ambitious enough, huh? I have full coverage medical and dental for my wife and three kids from my work, so I guess I'm not as lazy as you.

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Um, yes you are and so am I. Unless you don't pay taxes.

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You finally said something that makes sense! Except that they are already playing by our rules, the ones we bent or broke in order to increase our profit margins!

You've got a lot to learn about who's fault is who's!

 

Wouldn't the house itself be built in the United States? Maybe not by Americans, but it was built here, unless you don't live here? huh.gif

 

WTF does owning non-US made products have to do with illegal immigration? You can profit with legal US workers, and it's immoral to raise your cash flow higher by paying people less than a sustainable wage. I don't care what anyone says.


I am not a hypocrite about the Columbus/home invasion comparison. The indians should have killed Columbus and all to follow. They didn't, so it's their fault. It would be my fault if I let you stay on my couch after coming into my house uninvited and setting up camp also.


People don't require $20 to work you silly, silly man. I'm talking minimum wage for all of the jobs illegal immigrants are doing. I know several people working for under $9/hour at crappy jobs. I do set pay for many positions at my job at the engineering firm I've helped build from the ground up. We pay competitively for our industry, and are continuously upgrading our benefits package. I could take higher pay for myself and hire worse workers for less pay but it isn't as profitable for our business. Plus screwing our workers over isn't something I could do with a clean conscience, and that's worth more than a few dollars an hour to me. Also BTW the cost of labor for a head of lettuce is $0.05/head. For an extra $0.05/head we could double the pay to the workers harvesting them. That's not going to drive the cost of produce through the roof. Think about how many apples someone can pick in an hour. It's a whole lot of apples to spread another $5 across, and a number I am perfectly comfortable paying. McDonalds shouldn't and usually doesn't hire illegal immigrants to make our cheeseburgers, they hire teenagers mostly. Minimum wage is all that should pay, and you can fill minimum wage positions the old fashioned way, with teenagers.


There aren't big enough penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, and the law absolutely needs enforced. These people are being taken advantage of by American standards, so they're being taken advantage of. If a girl is being raped and beaten by her uncle, so I take her out of the situation and only rape her and leave the beatings out it's still taking advantage of her, even if she's relatively happy for not being beaten.


None of the workers above work anything in the neighborhood of an unsustainable wage, and I'd say they're not crappy jobs either. My fireman friend makes $23/hour with excellent benefits, early retirement, and a pension. Police make more than double minimum wage at least, and have good benefits despite having to have little to no training prior to hiring. Teachers get paid a reasonable amount considering they get 2 months off in the summer. They also all get to feel good about themselves for helping people, something you can't equate to someone content working picking apples for $3 an hour for a career.



Yes, I do. Do you have any idea how much it costs to buy a 60" plasma screen? It's thousands of dollars. I suppose that if I want a plasma I should just go steal it because I'm too damn lazy to work to pay for it? I have many friends who did it the right way. It can be done. Your remark is just plain stupid.


Guess what, I (and my family) have been injured and ill and I do pay my medical bills. The US does have serious issues with it's healthcare system, but I still pay my bills. I guess you're saying that it's okay to not pay bills if it's hard, and that doctors should just go ahead and treat them despite knowing that they will never get paid. So here you're hypocritical because above you said that a business should do whatever necessary to make a buck, but here you're saying a doctor/hospital should go ahead and treat everyone even if they can't pay. I have decided to help build a business from the ground up instead of work at a large business that can cover medical for my whole family. This is an investment in my family's future. I will be better off as second in command of a medium sized company than halfway up in a large company. Things take time though, and I'm in the process right now of switching our company medical policy over to another system we now qualify for due to our growth that will cover all of our employees' families. I have turned down positions offered to me by larger companies because my position will be the best position for me in the long run.

Just for you, here are links to hospitals closing due to illegal immigrants:
http://www.alipac.us/article281.html
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000060.html
http://www.nshp.org/?q=node/717
http://www.vdare.com/malkin/welcome_mat.htm
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html

And I got tired of making links. You're just plain wrong on the bankrupt hospitals issue. Read the links and you jst might learn something.


No, not to the degree we are here. We send money that way but not near enough to take care of most of the population. If we did there wouldn't be so many dying every day.


I don't think I do. It's the fault of the Americans for not building a wall a long time ago and stopping this problem from developing. It's the greediness of American companies trying to make an extra buck. It's the ignorance of the average American for supporting this practice by buying the cheapest option regardless of the source.

Now that there's a problem it will be much harder to fix than if we wouldn't have let it happen in the first place. I remember the first time I ever saw a Mexican in my home town. I was like, "Wow, look, it's a Mexican! That's cool." Now the place is overrun with illegal immigrants who harvest salal brush (floral arrangements), mushrooms (food), ferns (floral arrangements), cedar boughs (wreaths, etc.), and cascara bark (laxative) from the surrounding forests. This causes problems. This destroys a lot of the natural beauty of the area. The illegal immigrants constantly trespass, even on posted land. There are a lot of shootings, stabbings, and robberies in outlying areas now. There is a lot of poaching of deer and elk in the area, including a case where 32 elk were killed and put in a refrigerated truck by a group of illegal immigrants where their only penalty was deportation despite the fact that that would get me 10 years in prison. I have also been chased and threatened multiple times personally. There are a lot of sides to the illegal immigration situation you have probably never seen. I want them all gone. There is no good reason for them to be here in the first place.

 

way too much in this for me to read...

i choose to not have an opinion on the matter. what bothers me is the high school students walking out of class... seriously, what are they trying to prove? do they think people care what students think? as far as i'm concerned its a bunch of kids playing copy cat and just wanna get out of class. thats it.... plus, they can't vote so their opinion truley doesn't matter.

stupid kids