Is This True?
01-13-2006, 03:57 PM
#11
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I have never heard that.. the Rotten egg smell is usually from your cat running too rich or overheating.
As for the octane numbers. The Beta runs at roughly 10 to 1 compression. In my book that qualifies for at least 89 octane. I know Hyundai says that it can run on 87, but that might only be due to the knock sensor. I can say this with certainty. My tib runs better on 93. It is smoother and I get better gas miliage than I do on 87 or 89. with a 117,000 miles, I am still getting 31 or 32 miles to the gallon average per tank.
As for the octane numbers. The Beta runs at roughly 10 to 1 compression. In my book that qualifies for at least 89 octane. I know Hyundai says that it can run on 87, but that might only be due to the knock sensor. I can say this with certainty. My tib runs better on 93. It is smoother and I get better gas miliage than I do on 87 or 89. with a 117,000 miles, I am still getting 31 or 32 miles to the gallon average per tank.
01-13-2006, 06:36 PM
#12
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Double_A @ Jan 12 2006, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The only difference in gasoline with different occtane ratings is the amount of energy it takes to ignite it or start the chemical reaction. In no way does the octane rating affect power, gas mileage, better or cleaner combustion, or the amount of time the gasoline takes to burn.
An exaple would be boiling water</div>
wrong^^
hmm i work in a refinery and have for 2 years now we make gasoline, naptha, diesel, and jet fuel smile.gif and some other nasty smelling products.
octane ratings show flash point. higher ratings means it explodes faster and hotter and yes it does explode faster.
now what that means is that higher octanes will explode b4 the piston has went through its entire rotation wich will cause knocking because the fuel is burning b4 the piston gets to its ideal firing time or after.
im sorry but the same spark that lites 87 octane will lite jet fuel or 93 octane that doesnt matter.
yes octane ratings do affect power and gas milage but does not affect cleaner combustion sence most of americas gasoline is bad, trucks haul oil and deisel and gas they all mix there vesels are hardly ever cleaned. as i said above octane rating = flash point. the higher the rating the faster it burns.
you cant compare water to flamable products water has a temp limit it evaporates at a certain temp where flamable products can get hotter and hotter. bad example.
An exaple would be boiling water</div>
wrong^^
hmm i work in a refinery and have for 2 years now we make gasoline, naptha, diesel, and jet fuel smile.gif and some other nasty smelling products.
octane ratings show flash point. higher ratings means it explodes faster and hotter and yes it does explode faster.
now what that means is that higher octanes will explode b4 the piston has went through its entire rotation wich will cause knocking because the fuel is burning b4 the piston gets to its ideal firing time or after.
im sorry but the same spark that lites 87 octane will lite jet fuel or 93 octane that doesnt matter.
yes octane ratings do affect power and gas milage but does not affect cleaner combustion sence most of americas gasoline is bad, trucks haul oil and deisel and gas they all mix there vesels are hardly ever cleaned. as i said above octane rating = flash point. the higher the rating the faster it burns.
you cant compare water to flamable products water has a temp limit it evaporates at a certain temp where flamable products can get hotter and hotter. bad example.
01-13-2006, 09:50 PM
#13
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You got some of that backwards Gary. Octane does affect the point at which a fuel will compress to flash point. The HIGHER the number, the more you can compress the fuel before it spontaniously flashes.
Diesel fuel for example has a high octane rating.. diesel's run on compression fired combustion, there is no sparkplug.. so the higher they can raise the compression, the better it burns the more power you can get from it.
Diesel fuel for example has a high octane rating.. diesel's run on compression fired combustion, there is no sparkplug.. so the higher they can raise the compression, the better it burns the more power you can get from it.
01-14-2006, 12:52 AM
#14
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here's a quote and a few links from the wikipedia free online encyclopedia. I swear to god if you read throught the entire website I'll wear the official RDT Thong to the next ABQ BBQ.
Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies. Activation energy is the amount of energy necessary to start a chemical reaction- since higher octane fuels have higher activation energies, it is less likely that a given compression ratio will cause knocking.
It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings burn less easily, yet are popularly thought of as more powerful. Using a fuel with a higher octane lets an engine be run at a higher compression ratio without having problems with knock. Compression is directly related to power (see engine tuning), so engines that require higher octane usually deliver more power. Some high-performance engines are designed to operate with a compression ratio associated with high octane numbers, and thus demand high-octane gasoline. It should be noted that the power output of an engine also depends on the energy content of its fuel, which bears no simple relationship to the octane rating. A common myth amongst petrol consumers is that adding a higher octane fuel to a vehicle's engine will increase its performance and/or lessen its fuel consumption; this is mostly false—engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating they were designed for and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal. On the other hand, using the recommended octane for a modern engine makes a huge difference compared to a lower than recommended octane. Here is a white paper that gives an example: http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9 .
The octane rating was developed by the chemist Russell Marker. The selection of n-heptane as the zero point of the scale was due to the availability of very high purity n-heptane, not mixed with other isomers of heptane or octane, distilled from the resin of the Jeffrey Pine. Other sources of heptane produced from crude oil contain a mixture of different isomers with greatly differing ratings, which would not give a precise zero point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Gasoline FAQ
How Octane Works at HowStuffWorks.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_plug
Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies. Activation energy is the amount of energy necessary to start a chemical reaction- since higher octane fuels have higher activation energies, it is less likely that a given compression ratio will cause knocking.
It might seem odd that fuels with higher octane ratings burn less easily, yet are popularly thought of as more powerful. Using a fuel with a higher octane lets an engine be run at a higher compression ratio without having problems with knock. Compression is directly related to power (see engine tuning), so engines that require higher octane usually deliver more power. Some high-performance engines are designed to operate with a compression ratio associated with high octane numbers, and thus demand high-octane gasoline. It should be noted that the power output of an engine also depends on the energy content of its fuel, which bears no simple relationship to the octane rating. A common myth amongst petrol consumers is that adding a higher octane fuel to a vehicle's engine will increase its performance and/or lessen its fuel consumption; this is mostly false—engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating they were designed for and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal. On the other hand, using the recommended octane for a modern engine makes a huge difference compared to a lower than recommended octane. Here is a white paper that gives an example: http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9 .
The octane rating was developed by the chemist Russell Marker. The selection of n-heptane as the zero point of the scale was due to the availability of very high purity n-heptane, not mixed with other isomers of heptane or octane, distilled from the resin of the Jeffrey Pine. Other sources of heptane produced from crude oil contain a mixture of different isomers with greatly differing ratings, which would not give a precise zero point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Gasoline FAQ
How Octane Works at HowStuffWorks.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_plug
01-14-2006, 09:13 PM
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first, read what Dmitry has to say, then :
in case you guys ever took chemistry, let's start with the meaning of "octane": In chemistry, hydrocarbons are typically classified accordingly to their chemical make-up. Namely, methane refers to a single carbon atom, hexane would have 5 carbon atoms (in a chain), and octane would have 8 carbon atoms. Our combustion engines are made to work off of octane fuel.
What this means is that 87 octane is 87 pure octane, and the rest impure, which make it ignite faster. Race gas with higher than 100 octane means that its pure, and has other chemicals which further prevent ignition.
How this applies to large v8's and turbos is this:
Large n/a engines rely on higher compression ratios, and there is a lot of gas that has to fill and mix in the combustion chamber before it is supposed to ignite.
turbo's have warmer compressed air, which is already more vulnerable to combustion, so higher octane gives the chamber time to fully compress before ignition.
diesel is a high octane, in fact, it burns much worse, (you don't see diesel moltov cocktails) what makes it work efficiently is the engine design, producing around 17:1 compression. If you know anyone with a diesel VW golf, they get amazing mileage.
in case you guys ever took chemistry, let's start with the meaning of "octane": In chemistry, hydrocarbons are typically classified accordingly to their chemical make-up. Namely, methane refers to a single carbon atom, hexane would have 5 carbon atoms (in a chain), and octane would have 8 carbon atoms. Our combustion engines are made to work off of octane fuel.
What this means is that 87 octane is 87 pure octane, and the rest impure, which make it ignite faster. Race gas with higher than 100 octane means that its pure, and has other chemicals which further prevent ignition.
How this applies to large v8's and turbos is this:
Large n/a engines rely on higher compression ratios, and there is a lot of gas that has to fill and mix in the combustion chamber before it is supposed to ignite.
turbo's have warmer compressed air, which is already more vulnerable to combustion, so higher octane gives the chamber time to fully compress before ignition.
diesel is a high octane, in fact, it burns much worse, (you don't see diesel moltov cocktails) what makes it work efficiently is the engine design, producing around 17:1 compression. If you know anyone with a diesel VW golf, they get amazing mileage.
01-16-2006, 11:26 AM
#16
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>in case you guys ever took chemistry, let's start with the meaning of "octane": In chemistry, hydrocarbons are typically classified accordingly to their chemical make-up. Namely, methane refers to a single carbon atom, hexane would have 5 carbon atoms (in a chain), and octane would have 8 carbon atoms. Our combustion engines are made to work off of octane fuel.</div>
haha.gif
I dunno if that suits you...you sound so intelligent...no way you said that. Oh wait...I said that. laugh.gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>A common myth amongst petrol consumers is that adding a higher octane fuel to a vehicle's engine will increase its performance and/or lessen its fuel consumption; this is mostly false—engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating they were designed for and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal.</div>
I think even SCC proved that a while ago...or it might've been a test to see which octane booster on the market was worth every bang for its buck.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Beta runs at roughly 10 to 1 compression. In my book that qualifies for at least 89 octane.</div>
It runs 10.1:1...but same difference. nana.gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>you cant compare water to flamable products water has a temp limit it evaporates at a certain temp where flamable products can get hotter and hotter. bad example.</div>
Yeah...huge differences...water is stable, alkanes (any chemical with -ane at the end of the word) are unstable...water has a higher vapor pressure than alkanes, alkanes are hydrocarbons...etc...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>octane ratings show flash point. higher ratings means it explodes faster and hotter and yes it does explode faster</div>
Yes and no. Higher ratings DOES NOT mean it explodes faster. What I'm saying...is that it's impossible for higher octanes to explode faster than lower octanes. The more hydrocarbon chains (meaning if you go up the number scale...like meth-, eth-, prop-, but-, pent-, hex-, hept-, and oct-), the more harder it is to ignite. If you've ever noticed that you go through 87-octane, on a full tank, much faster than 93-octane on a full tank, that's partly the reason.
They usually cut 87-octane with something like heptane...so you get the 87% octane and 13% heptane. But each company does it a little differently.
Note to the wise: Never, ever take orgo-chem in college...or you'll shoot yourself.
haha.gif
I dunno if that suits you...you sound so intelligent...no way you said that. Oh wait...I said that. laugh.gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>A common myth amongst petrol consumers is that adding a higher octane fuel to a vehicle's engine will increase its performance and/or lessen its fuel consumption; this is mostly false—engines perform best when using fuel with the octane rating they were designed for and any increase in performance by using a fuel with a different octane rating is minimal.</div>
I think even SCC proved that a while ago...or it might've been a test to see which octane booster on the market was worth every bang for its buck.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Beta runs at roughly 10 to 1 compression. In my book that qualifies for at least 89 octane.</div>
It runs 10.1:1...but same difference. nana.gif
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>you cant compare water to flamable products water has a temp limit it evaporates at a certain temp where flamable products can get hotter and hotter. bad example.</div>
Yeah...huge differences...water is stable, alkanes (any chemical with -ane at the end of the word) are unstable...water has a higher vapor pressure than alkanes, alkanes are hydrocarbons...etc...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>octane ratings show flash point. higher ratings means it explodes faster and hotter and yes it does explode faster</div>
Yes and no. Higher ratings DOES NOT mean it explodes faster. What I'm saying...is that it's impossible for higher octanes to explode faster than lower octanes. The more hydrocarbon chains (meaning if you go up the number scale...like meth-, eth-, prop-, but-, pent-, hex-, hept-, and oct-), the more harder it is to ignite. If you've ever noticed that you go through 87-octane, on a full tank, much faster than 93-octane on a full tank, that's partly the reason.
They usually cut 87-octane with something like heptane...so you get the 87% octane and 13% heptane. But each company does it a little differently.
Note to the wise: Never, ever take orgo-chem in college...or you'll shoot yourself.
01-16-2006, 02:23 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArcticChill @ Jan 16 2006, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It runs 10.1:1...but same difference. nana.gif</div>
hehe, 2.0 runs 10.3 CR nana.gif but same difference wink1.gif
hehe, 2.0 runs 10.3 CR nana.gif but same difference wink1.gif
01-16-2006, 04:49 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dmitry @ Jan 16 2006, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>hehe, 2.0 runs 10.3 CR nana.gif but same difference wink1.gif</div>
I was referring to the Beta II. Beta Is run 10.3:1 CR. Yes.
I was referring to the Beta II. Beta Is run 10.3:1 CR. Yes.