Is stainless steel alright for CAI?
02-01-2005, 05:58 AM
#11
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Good question mechanix... I wouldn't think a particular piece of air would stay in there for very long. I'm just basing what I'm saying off of the readings that the IAT sensor gets and the properties of stainless steel to aluminum.
I can see the path your talking about. While I don't see how using stainless steel will help, it may not make a difference other than the weight and a few degrees. Try it out and let us know if you want. tongue.gif
I can see the path your talking about. While I don't see how using stainless steel will help, it may not make a difference other than the weight and a few degrees. Try it out and let us know if you want. tongue.gif
02-01-2005, 05:59 AM
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well... considering that the air is already at ambiant temps to begin with.. no time at all. As for how long the air is in the intake. I would say seconds at the most. Consider that for every full cycle the engine makes (all four cylinders having fired) it will have brought in just under 1.9 litres of air (I know it is a two litre engine, but it is not a true 2000cc nor will it ever take in the same amount of air each time it pumps due to flow characteristics in the head and cylinders)... so that is quite a bit of air at idle.. you can feel it suck at your hand.. (especially on a carbed car) and at a screaming 6500rpms, I doubt it spends any time at all.
Personally, I would go with the aluminum because it is lighter and so much easier to work with. Stainlesssteel tends to get a little cranky when you try and bend it into shape.
BTW.. I also have that short straight CAI that needed the battery relocated.
Personally, I would go with the aluminum because it is lighter and so much easier to work with. Stainlesssteel tends to get a little cranky when you try and bend it into shape.
BTW.. I also have that short straight CAI that needed the battery relocated.
02-01-2005, 10:47 AM
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IMO SS would be a great application. yes aluminum can disapate heat quickly BUT it can also heat up easily and transfers heat very well which means that either the air inside of the tube will cool down the tube helping to stabilize the air temp over time OR if the outside temp is hotter by a large margin that heat will be transfered into the air stream causing it to warm up.
SS on the other hand is a very good insulator and dosen't respond much to outside temps which makes it easier to retain temp of the air being sucked in. the heavier the gauge the better the insulation. to increase throttle responce when you make this intake make a section larger. this will make a surge tank. by doing this it will allow for more air availible for the initial draw.
SS on the other hand is a very good insulator and dosen't respond much to outside temps which makes it easier to retain temp of the air being sucked in. the heavier the gauge the better the insulation. to increase throttle responce when you make this intake make a section larger. this will make a surge tank. by doing this it will allow for more air availible for the initial draw.
02-01-2005, 12:26 PM
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Aluminum from my understanding dissipates more than it heats up. Especially with the location of the filter with most CAI, ambient air temp isn't going to be that hot entering the stream in the first place. A surge tank however isn't a bad idea, as long as you don't make it too humongous. Might be hard for you to make though.
02-01-2005, 12:47 PM
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SS > Aluminum because:
looks better
here's where I was wrong (SS holds heat in, but I did not know it ABSORBED heat. I thought it would hold heat OUT better than Aluminum but I guess that's where I was wrong)
Aluminum > SS because:
way lighter
way easier to work with (bending, cutting, etc.)
way cheaper!
and I guess now that I read this thread it keeps the air at a cooler temp. than stainless steel.
Just think, why does AEM (the intake evryone buys) make their piping out of auminum instead of ss? 1.) cheaper for buyers 2.) lighter 3.) easier for them 4.) better performance
So I'd say go with the aluminum man,....
looks better
here's where I was wrong (SS holds heat in, but I did not know it ABSORBED heat. I thought it would hold heat OUT better than Aluminum but I guess that's where I was wrong)
Aluminum > SS because:
way lighter
way easier to work with (bending, cutting, etc.)
way cheaper!
and I guess now that I read this thread it keeps the air at a cooler temp. than stainless steel.
Just think, why does AEM (the intake evryone buys) make their piping out of auminum instead of ss? 1.) cheaper for buyers 2.) lighter 3.) easier for them 4.) better performance
So I'd say go with the aluminum man,....
02-01-2005, 01:22 PM
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I've had my CAI for like two years now. I made it outr of Stainless Steel because there's no chance to get aluminun here in southamerica, at least not in raw form to work with it.
My options were Steel (wich will rust, not good at all!) and SS.
Also, the S&H for a CAI from the US to Southamerica would have been like $80 at least, and my hole piping plus the K&N cone filter cost me $120.
I used two 90° SS mandrel bends --which I could find locally imported from the US-- and pieces of straight piping (My CAI is not really best of CAIs, the cone is close to the pavement IN the engine bay, below radiator) I got someone with the right equipment to bond them --don't know the word in english...) so finally I got two pieces.
As for performance, I think it's really soooooooo small the difference in the air temp with both materials, you won't notice it at all; and even if you did, you could always wrap your SS CAI with some ThermoTec heat foam to keep heat on the outside.
Also, my car is MAP based, not MAF, so, I don't have that 2,5" section restriction of the MAF, and I did my CAI 3" diameter all the way; I didn't feel any power lose on the low end and it really grunts in high with the 1.8 cam.
I think MAF and MAP based cars react very different (being MAF based much more sensitive to small mods such as a CAI) so if you in OZ have MAP based CAI's I would not only advise to go ahead with SS, but go larger than 2,5" in diameter.
Oh... and never mind about the filter, just clean very well the end where the filter sits and tight the screw on the clamp really tight, beleive me, it won't fall laugh.gif:
My options were Steel (wich will rust, not good at all!) and SS.
Also, the S&H for a CAI from the US to Southamerica would have been like $80 at least, and my hole piping plus the K&N cone filter cost me $120.
I used two 90° SS mandrel bends --which I could find locally imported from the US-- and pieces of straight piping (My CAI is not really best of CAIs, the cone is close to the pavement IN the engine bay, below radiator) I got someone with the right equipment to bond them --don't know the word in english...) so finally I got two pieces.
As for performance, I think it's really soooooooo small the difference in the air temp with both materials, you won't notice it at all; and even if you did, you could always wrap your SS CAI with some ThermoTec heat foam to keep heat on the outside.
Also, my car is MAP based, not MAF, so, I don't have that 2,5" section restriction of the MAF, and I did my CAI 3" diameter all the way; I didn't feel any power lose on the low end and it really grunts in high with the 1.8 cam.
I think MAF and MAP based cars react very different (being MAF based much more sensitive to small mods such as a CAI) so if you in OZ have MAP based CAI's I would not only advise to go ahead with SS, but go larger than 2,5" in diameter.
Oh... and never mind about the filter, just clean very well the end where the filter sits and tight the screw on the clamp really tight, beleive me, it won't fall laugh.gif:
02-01-2005, 04:30 PM
#19
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zman)</div><div class='quotemain'>... so if you in OZ have MAP based CAI's I would not only advise to go ahead with SS, but go larger than 2,5" in diameter...</div>
Yeah, I'm going for 3" piping regardless of whether it's aluminium or stainless steel... I don't have a MAF sensor to worry about.
I'll be getting a 45deg bend & a 90deg bend (or 70deg bend)...
I was going to get aluminium piping but there's this shop just down the road from where I work that sells all sorts of stainless stuff, such as mandrel bends, brackets & clamps... Pricing would be about the same as if I were to go for aluminium piping once the aluminium is polished.
Yeah, I'm going for 3" piping regardless of whether it's aluminium or stainless steel... I don't have a MAF sensor to worry about.
I'll be getting a 45deg bend & a 90deg bend (or 70deg bend)...
I was going to get aluminium piping but there's this shop just down the road from where I work that sells all sorts of stainless stuff, such as mandrel bends, brackets & clamps... Pricing would be about the same as if I were to go for aluminium piping once the aluminium is polished.
02-01-2005, 04:45 PM
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Yes, and you can always wrap your SS pipe with some heat isolating material, so even if the heat worries you, that would definetely be cooler than an alu pipe itself.
I made mine with a 90° located after the TB, with the pipe slightly turned down, a 45° to go further down.
If you are going to move the battery and locate the CAI in the fender well, I guess you'll need the 90° and one 75° or two 45° at least, I don't think that can be made with just two bends.
Also, My CAI is not attached to the body in any point; I made a SS support brace that goes from the pipe (at the place where the std airbox is approx) to the bottom of engine baym and then the brace has an angle and a hole, and one of the bolts of the gearbox mounts goes through. That way, it vibrates with the engine alone, and has no stress points due to different vibrations patterns or movements between engine and body.
I made mine with a 90° located after the TB, with the pipe slightly turned down, a 45° to go further down.
If you are going to move the battery and locate the CAI in the fender well, I guess you'll need the 90° and one 75° or two 45° at least, I don't think that can be made with just two bends.
Also, My CAI is not attached to the body in any point; I made a SS support brace that goes from the pipe (at the place where the std airbox is approx) to the bottom of engine baym and then the brace has an angle and a hole, and one of the bolts of the gearbox mounts goes through. That way, it vibrates with the engine alone, and has no stress points due to different vibrations patterns or movements between engine and body.