n/a BETA max hp #'s
07-15-2002, 02:43 AM
#51
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>BV1:
Red, one quick thing to point out.
The Beta motor WAS based on the mitsu 2.0L motor. In fact, back in the early 90's all hyundais had mitsu motors in them. By the mid 90's Hyundai was still using mitsu motors, but had start modifying them, making changes to the ECU's and cam shafts. Mitsu complained to hyundai about modifying their patented design, and Hyundai threatened to pull the contract. Mitsu backed off, fearing losing a major customer and Hyundai continued to use mitsu motors for a short while with their modifications. Finally Hyundai smartened-up, took the mitsu design, and modified it to the extent that it didn't fall under the patent and started producing them, themselves. However the first few batches in 96 still had some left over mitsu's in them with Hyundai faceplates.
Just passing the word from the dealership,
-Steve</div>Fully incorrect on the part of your dealership. The dealership in Wichita KS tried to tell me that it was the same design as the Mitsu, to the point that you could just slap in the piston because someone else there in the city did it to THEIR Tiburon. Yes, this was the tech department, and yes they are dumb.
What's different between a 4G6x and G4Gx:
Geometry
Bore, stroke, rod length, piston pin placement
Rotating Assy
Ring land radial depth, ring thickness, piston crown design, crank diameter, crank counterweight placement and offset, flywheel mating surface, main cap design
Shortblock
Cylider sleeve thickness, block casting, coolant vein placement, head stud mounting methodology and torque set, main stud mounting methodology, main cap girdles, oil pump placement, water pump placement, block orientation to car horizontal axis.
Top end
Head casting, port shape, 90-degree bend in exhaust side, chamber *trough* design, valves are direct-actuation versus-rocker actuation, cam shaft drive method, pressurized oiling passages, coolant vein placement.
I could go on, but I won't. Basically, the ONLY THING these two motors have in common is A: 4 cylinders, B: front wheel drive, and C: the crank is nitrate hardened (hardly something unique to Mitsu...)
Red, one quick thing to point out.
The Beta motor WAS based on the mitsu 2.0L motor. In fact, back in the early 90's all hyundais had mitsu motors in them. By the mid 90's Hyundai was still using mitsu motors, but had start modifying them, making changes to the ECU's and cam shafts. Mitsu complained to hyundai about modifying their patented design, and Hyundai threatened to pull the contract. Mitsu backed off, fearing losing a major customer and Hyundai continued to use mitsu motors for a short while with their modifications. Finally Hyundai smartened-up, took the mitsu design, and modified it to the extent that it didn't fall under the patent and started producing them, themselves. However the first few batches in 96 still had some left over mitsu's in them with Hyundai faceplates.
Just passing the word from the dealership,
-Steve</div>Fully incorrect on the part of your dealership. The dealership in Wichita KS tried to tell me that it was the same design as the Mitsu, to the point that you could just slap in the piston because someone else there in the city did it to THEIR Tiburon. Yes, this was the tech department, and yes they are dumb.
What's different between a 4G6x and G4Gx:
Geometry
Bore, stroke, rod length, piston pin placement
Rotating Assy
Ring land radial depth, ring thickness, piston crown design, crank diameter, crank counterweight placement and offset, flywheel mating surface, main cap design
Shortblock
Cylider sleeve thickness, block casting, coolant vein placement, head stud mounting methodology and torque set, main stud mounting methodology, main cap girdles, oil pump placement, water pump placement, block orientation to car horizontal axis.
Top end
Head casting, port shape, 90-degree bend in exhaust side, chamber *trough* design, valves are direct-actuation versus-rocker actuation, cam shaft drive method, pressurized oiling passages, coolant vein placement.
I could go on, but I won't. Basically, the ONLY THING these two motors have in common is A: 4 cylinders, B: front wheel drive, and C: the crank is nitrate hardened (hardly something unique to Mitsu...)
07-15-2002, 02:51 AM
#52
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OOps, someone asked about modifying the cylinder head for better normal aspiration...
In a word: No.
A cylinder head with a pent-roof combustion chamber design seems to be the best current method for high normally aspirated horsepower. Our trough design cannot be *modified* to this extent; you will have to fully re-cast a brand new head design.
Pent roof designs aren't always the best for turbocharged applications, the trough design is slightly better for such endeavors, but only in a very small way.
The other gating problem with our heads is the coolant vein placement along the exhaust ports. Because of the 90-degree bend on the exhaust port, the exhaust side of the head tends to heat up rather quickly due to the blocked gasses. Hyundai tried to alleviate this by running coolant veins along the edges of the exhaust ports...
While this keeps the head from getting too hot, it also limits how far out you can port the exhaust on the head. If you go too crazy, you will run into the veins and wreck the cylinder head.
Paul from HVE has admitted that on the full-race N/A motors in Australia, they run the exhaust ports out HUGE and simply weld the coolant veins shut. While this is fine for a race-only motor, it will never survive the 45-minute stop-and-go traffic on your way to work every day.
In a word: No.
A cylinder head with a pent-roof combustion chamber design seems to be the best current method for high normally aspirated horsepower. Our trough design cannot be *modified* to this extent; you will have to fully re-cast a brand new head design.
Pent roof designs aren't always the best for turbocharged applications, the trough design is slightly better for such endeavors, but only in a very small way.
The other gating problem with our heads is the coolant vein placement along the exhaust ports. Because of the 90-degree bend on the exhaust port, the exhaust side of the head tends to heat up rather quickly due to the blocked gasses. Hyundai tried to alleviate this by running coolant veins along the edges of the exhaust ports...
While this keeps the head from getting too hot, it also limits how far out you can port the exhaust on the head. If you go too crazy, you will run into the veins and wreck the cylinder head.
Paul from HVE has admitted that on the full-race N/A motors in Australia, they run the exhaust ports out HUGE and simply weld the coolant veins shut. While this is fine for a race-only motor, it will never survive the 45-minute stop-and-go traffic on your way to work every day.
07-16-2002, 07:44 AM
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Still, I have no clue. I had absolutely ZERO sources of information on the actual length of the rods until I took my own 2.0L motor apart and Crower spec'd them for me.
Since I know the 1.8L and 2.0L share the same block but with different crank and rods, then I can very closely estimate the length of the rods in that motor as well.
But since the 1.6L uses a different block, crank and rods than anything I have for reference, then I have no way to estimate / guesstimate / contemplate.
Since I know the 1.8L and 2.0L share the same block but with different crank and rods, then I can very closely estimate the length of the rods in that motor as well.
But since the 1.6L uses a different block, crank and rods than anything I have for reference, then I have no way to estimate / guesstimate / contemplate.
07-16-2002, 01:09 PM
#58
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Vehicle: 2002 Beta Accent GSi
so why have i heard that supercharging the beta isn't worthwhile? to me, forced induction is forced induction. esp if u have a centrifugal (sp?) s/c.. same as a turbo.. just not drivn by exhaust?
sorry, a little off topic
sorry, a little off topic
07-16-2002, 01:31 PM
#59
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>ruben-z's 2K1:
so what about the 1.5 liter alpha then. if i were to use my engine and go completly N/A what kinda power numbers am i looking at.
</div>i don't think anyone read this part so i'll quote myself. wink
so what about the 1.5 liter alpha then. if i were to use my engine and go completly N/A what kinda power numbers am i looking at.
</div>i don't think anyone read this part so i'll quote myself. wink
07-16-2002, 03:21 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>blackdevil:
so why have i heard that supercharging the beta isn't worthwhile? to me, forced induction is forced induction. esp if u have a centrifugal (sp?) s/c.. same as a turbo.. just not drivn by exhaust?
sorry, a little off topic</div>If you can find someone who makes centrifugal chargers for the BETA engines, then you may indeed have better luck. All current and previous chargers have been roots (Eaton) based.
As for the Alphas, they DO make a lot more power N/A (percentage-wise) than the BETA. An Alpha with all the goodies can see 160WHP, which is an increase of almost 100% over what it does stock.
so why have i heard that supercharging the beta isn't worthwhile? to me, forced induction is forced induction. esp if u have a centrifugal (sp?) s/c.. same as a turbo.. just not drivn by exhaust?
sorry, a little off topic</div>If you can find someone who makes centrifugal chargers for the BETA engines, then you may indeed have better luck. All current and previous chargers have been roots (Eaton) based.
As for the Alphas, they DO make a lot more power N/A (percentage-wise) than the BETA. An Alpha with all the goodies can see 160WHP, which is an increase of almost 100% over what it does stock.