Low Temp Thermostat
05-04-2005, 12:26 PM
#23
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The rods you push through the radiator are fine. Believe me, they're not going to pull through. There is a plastic washer and nut on the front-side of the radiator about 1/2" in diameter that will not fit through the radiator fins without ripping through the water channels as well (which they're not strong enough to do).
05-04-2005, 01:53 PM
#24
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad-Machine @ May 4 2005, 01:39 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>As far as your one fan all the time, Random. I think it is a bit excessive, but if it works, that is great. Personally, that is the fan I would have wired to a switch so I could kill it when cruising down the highway or something.
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Having the fan on all the time was trial and error. With the fan coming on just via the ECU, it ran too often, and for a very short period of time. In regards to freeway cruising, it helped as well. Keep in mind, I'm in LA and frequently drive to Phoenix across the desert. With the turbocharger, it was needed. With a N/A car, it should not be needed.
Also, running the fan all the time won't "hurt" anything but the life of the fan. The fan poses no airflow restriction while running. It lowers the air pressure behind the radiator, allowing more air to flow through the radiator, regardless of if you are moving 1mph or 90 MPH. If you think about it, NOT running the fan at freeway speeds causes more of a restriction than running it.
The "auxilary" reason for running one of the fans all the time was to blow air over the turbo and manifold to lower their temps and prevent them from baking the underside of my hood. (I had the Zefiro "evo" hood). Before I setup the fan to run all the time, The heat from the turbo and manifold was 'browning" the white paint on the underside of the hood. Even with the Large "Evo vent" in the middle of the hood, underhood temps would build up hot enough to brown the white paint on the underside of the hood.
Once I wired the fan to run all the time, that stopped. Partly because it lowered underhood temps, but also because it cooled the turbocharger and manifold and didn't allow them to get AS hot durring normal driving, so they didn't bake/brown the underside of my hood.
Granted some heat reflective/sound dampening material would have solved the problem, but to me, that stuff looks nasty/ugly.
Jaws021 also has his Flex-a-Lite installed via the push-through setup. It works just fine.
If folks are considering the Flex-A-Lites, DO NOT buy the version with the thermostat. Buy the non-thermostat version, then wire the fans to operate as the stock fans do (Drivers side via ECU, Passenger side via AC). If you are still having overheating problems, wire one fan to run with the ignition, and the other to run off the ECU. The Flex-A-Lite thermostat is un-needed.
One of the "projects" I never got around to was to install a "turbo timer" on my fans. Not to run the engine, but to run the fans for a minute or two after the engine shut off. I never got around to doing it, but I plan on doing it with my next project car.
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Having the fan on all the time was trial and error. With the fan coming on just via the ECU, it ran too often, and for a very short period of time. In regards to freeway cruising, it helped as well. Keep in mind, I'm in LA and frequently drive to Phoenix across the desert. With the turbocharger, it was needed. With a N/A car, it should not be needed.
Also, running the fan all the time won't "hurt" anything but the life of the fan. The fan poses no airflow restriction while running. It lowers the air pressure behind the radiator, allowing more air to flow through the radiator, regardless of if you are moving 1mph or 90 MPH. If you think about it, NOT running the fan at freeway speeds causes more of a restriction than running it.
The "auxilary" reason for running one of the fans all the time was to blow air over the turbo and manifold to lower their temps and prevent them from baking the underside of my hood. (I had the Zefiro "evo" hood). Before I setup the fan to run all the time, The heat from the turbo and manifold was 'browning" the white paint on the underside of the hood. Even with the Large "Evo vent" in the middle of the hood, underhood temps would build up hot enough to brown the white paint on the underside of the hood.
Once I wired the fan to run all the time, that stopped. Partly because it lowered underhood temps, but also because it cooled the turbocharger and manifold and didn't allow them to get AS hot durring normal driving, so they didn't bake/brown the underside of my hood.
Granted some heat reflective/sound dampening material would have solved the problem, but to me, that stuff looks nasty/ugly.
Jaws021 also has his Flex-a-Lite installed via the push-through setup. It works just fine.
If folks are considering the Flex-A-Lites, DO NOT buy the version with the thermostat. Buy the non-thermostat version, then wire the fans to operate as the stock fans do (Drivers side via ECU, Passenger side via AC). If you are still having overheating problems, wire one fan to run with the ignition, and the other to run off the ECU. The Flex-A-Lite thermostat is un-needed.
One of the "projects" I never got around to was to install a "turbo timer" on my fans. Not to run the engine, but to run the fans for a minute or two after the engine shut off. I never got around to doing it, but I plan on doing it with my next project car.
05-04-2005, 10:14 PM
#25
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The timer on the fans is a very good idea. It is akin to the hood scoop on the SRT4. That does not feed anything, it just blows outside air over the turbo to keep the underhood temps down.
As for the rest of your comments, Random. It looks like you did a lot of trial and error in getting that thing together to work like that. Irregardless of the pressure drop behind the radiator (Which is something I never thought of) for most people, I would think putting a timer on the fan to keep it running for a couple of minuts after the ECU turned it on would alleviate the constante Cycling.
As you said, most of us do not have the extremes you face both in ambiant tempeture, where you drive, and the heat of your turbo all rolled into one hot package.
As for the rest of your comments, Random. It looks like you did a lot of trial and error in getting that thing together to work like that. Irregardless of the pressure drop behind the radiator (Which is something I never thought of) for most people, I would think putting a timer on the fan to keep it running for a couple of minuts after the ECU turned it on would alleviate the constante Cycling.
As you said, most of us do not have the extremes you face both in ambiant tempeture, where you drive, and the heat of your turbo all rolled into one hot package.
05-05-2005, 01:50 AM
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The timer wouldn't affect the constant cycling because of where the stock ECU measures water tempature (just AFTER the thermostat). So when the thermostat closes, it get's cold, and the fans shut off. After it's been closed a wee bit, when it opens, a flood of HOT water comes out, and bingo, fans on. The fans do their job (along with circulating coolant) and the thermostat closes again, and the temp sensor goes cold...shutting off the fans. They cycle would continue with or without a timer. a Minimum timer would just prolong the run period, not stop "cycle" itself.
In theory... a low temp theromostat, that would stay open longer/open earlier would have kept the fans on longer, but it too would not eliminate the cycling. The only way to "eliminate" the cycle was to keep the coolant below the fan temp "on" threshold durring normal driving (like it is in a basically stock car). The only way to do that was to run one fan constantly. That way, when I would romp on the car, or if I ran into very hot weather, the passenger side fan could come on for extra cooling, but only when it was TRUELY needed.
The only time the car ever overheated was...get this... At speeds over 100mph. After 10 or 15 minutes of between 100 and 110 mph, the engine overheated, even with the extra fan kicking on.(It was between 100F and 105F across the desert) The Alpine turbo's wastegate was so small that it was creating 2-3 psi of boost even though I was at about 1/4 to 1/2 throttle (110 mph is about 5000 RPM in 5th). The added heat of 10-15 minutes of boosted driving was enough to overwhelm the stock cooling system. Once I slowed down to a "normal" 80mph, the water temps dropped down into the normal range. It didn't overheat as in blow a hose or gasket, I slowed down when the coolant temp approached the "red" on the gauge, long before real damage would occur. In that circumstance, a low temp thermostat would not have helped. Water spray on the intercooler and/or radiator would have though. (but I think after 10-15 minutes, I would have run out of water sooner or later....)
In theory... a low temp theromostat, that would stay open longer/open earlier would have kept the fans on longer, but it too would not eliminate the cycling. The only way to "eliminate" the cycle was to keep the coolant below the fan temp "on" threshold durring normal driving (like it is in a basically stock car). The only way to do that was to run one fan constantly. That way, when I would romp on the car, or if I ran into very hot weather, the passenger side fan could come on for extra cooling, but only when it was TRUELY needed.
The only time the car ever overheated was...get this... At speeds over 100mph. After 10 or 15 minutes of between 100 and 110 mph, the engine overheated, even with the extra fan kicking on.(It was between 100F and 105F across the desert) The Alpine turbo's wastegate was so small that it was creating 2-3 psi of boost even though I was at about 1/4 to 1/2 throttle (110 mph is about 5000 RPM in 5th). The added heat of 10-15 minutes of boosted driving was enough to overwhelm the stock cooling system. Once I slowed down to a "normal" 80mph, the water temps dropped down into the normal range. It didn't overheat as in blow a hose or gasket, I slowed down when the coolant temp approached the "red" on the gauge, long before real damage would occur. In that circumstance, a low temp thermostat would not have helped. Water spray on the intercooler and/or radiator would have though. (but I think after 10-15 minutes, I would have run out of water sooner or later....)
05-05-2005, 05:14 AM
#27
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1.where can we get these fans? do we have a part## for the fans and if possiable for the relay also.. this is one upgrade i have put off for to long... where should i look ppl. School me! 
05-05-2005, 06:55 AM
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Definatly an extreme case there Random. Glad it was you and not somebody with the inability to figure out how to deal with it. You are also the only person I have ever heard of with our cars where the temp gage even moved. I personally hate the thing, I know from my other cars that the tempeture a car runs at constantly varies, but out gages never move once the car is warmed up.
05-05-2005, 07:46 AM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad_john @ May 5 2005, 05:14 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>1.where can we get these fans? do we have a part## for the fans and if possiable for the relay also.. this is one upgrade i have put off for to long... where should i look ppl. School me!
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I'm about to buy some, I've found a few websites that have them for very reasonable prices, like the colored ones for $220 shipped to me here in NM.
The model # is 220 for the fans. What relay are you talking about?
220 is for black, 220b is blue, 220r is red, 220y is yellow. I've found the black ones on ebay several times, but the colored ones are outrageously priced at most sites, goddamned ricers.
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I'm about to buy some, I've found a few websites that have them for very reasonable prices, like the colored ones for $220 shipped to me here in NM.
The model # is 220 for the fans. What relay are you talking about?
220 is for black, 220b is blue, 220r is red, 220y is yellow. I've found the black ones on ebay several times, but the colored ones are outrageously priced at most sites, goddamned ricers.
