Boring out the beta
07-06-2002, 09:31 AM
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Boring out the beta
i have a 98 5spd tib, and in addition to my planned CAI, Catback, 4-1 headers, and BBTB, etc. who has any info/experience on if i were to bore out my cylinders a little, and have some pistons made. can someone tell me what the cost to benefits ratio might be? what would i have to change?
07-06-2002, 10:34 AM
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Purely from a cost perspective:
Block comes OUT of the car entirely. This means the axles come off, transmission comes off, fuel lines are disconnected, all wiring points disconnected, intake and exhaust manifolds removed, engine mounts disconnected and the block is hoisted out of the car.
Then the block comes APART. This means all accessories are removed, timing belt is pulled, cylinder head comes off, oil pan comes off, rods come out, pistons come out, crank mains come off and the crank comes out.
Then the block is bored up to 40 thousandths over -- giving you 2.1 liters instead of 2.0 liters.
Stock pistons are then pressed off the stock rods, and are replaced either with Hyundai OEM 0.040 overbore pistons (about $120-150 for a set if I remember) or you have a custom set made (hyper-eutectic = $300+, forged = $550+).
You then reassemble the block. This means new crank bearings, new rings, new cylinder head bolts, new gaskets and seals on all wet attachment points and head gasket. Install is the reverse of removal...
Parts cost is $150 for Hyundai pistons, $35 for Hyundai rings, ~$220 for a Hyundai engine gasket rebuild kit, $75 for Hyundai head bolts, $50 for Hyyundai bearings, and then figure in that you have to fully re-break in the engine.
Labor rate is astronomical. Figure $80 for the bore job, $20 to have it dipped when finished, and about $500+ for someone to do all that disassembly / reassembly for you at about $75/hr.
You spent $1000, entirely voided the warranty on anything to do with the block, and picked up another 0.1L of displacement which equates to about 3-4 horsepower.
Eh, no.
Block comes OUT of the car entirely. This means the axles come off, transmission comes off, fuel lines are disconnected, all wiring points disconnected, intake and exhaust manifolds removed, engine mounts disconnected and the block is hoisted out of the car.
Then the block comes APART. This means all accessories are removed, timing belt is pulled, cylinder head comes off, oil pan comes off, rods come out, pistons come out, crank mains come off and the crank comes out.
Then the block is bored up to 40 thousandths over -- giving you 2.1 liters instead of 2.0 liters.
Stock pistons are then pressed off the stock rods, and are replaced either with Hyundai OEM 0.040 overbore pistons (about $120-150 for a set if I remember) or you have a custom set made (hyper-eutectic = $300+, forged = $550+).
You then reassemble the block. This means new crank bearings, new rings, new cylinder head bolts, new gaskets and seals on all wet attachment points and head gasket. Install is the reverse of removal...
Parts cost is $150 for Hyundai pistons, $35 for Hyundai rings, ~$220 for a Hyundai engine gasket rebuild kit, $75 for Hyundai head bolts, $50 for Hyyundai bearings, and then figure in that you have to fully re-break in the engine.
Labor rate is astronomical. Figure $80 for the bore job, $20 to have it dipped when finished, and about $500+ for someone to do all that disassembly / reassembly for you at about $75/hr.
You spent $1000, entirely voided the warranty on anything to do with the block, and picked up another 0.1L of displacement which equates to about 3-4 horsepower.
Eh, no.
07-06-2002, 04:20 PM
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Highest compression?
Take the cubic yardage of the cash in your wallet, divide by the horsepower you want, and you'll get the highest compression you can run on the motor.
The more money, the more compression.
Take the cubic yardage of the cash in your wallet, divide by the horsepower you want, and you'll get the highest compression you can run on the motor.
The more money, the more compression.
07-06-2002, 04:52 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Capt. Obvious:
did you apply my math equation?</div>c'mon man i wanted a serious answer not just some crap that you made up. rolleyes.gif
did you apply my math equation?</div>c'mon man i wanted a serious answer not just some crap that you made up. rolleyes.gif
07-06-2002, 05:09 PM
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Get a f'ing clue rolleyes.gif If you have the money, you can make that motor WHATEVER compression you want. You say 100:1, I say YES YOU CAN. Bring out about $1M USD for research and development, and you can do it.
Why don't you do some of your own damned research if you're smarter than me?
Why don't you do some of your own damned research if you're smarter than me?
07-06-2002, 06:09 PM
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Just my 2c worth..
I have looked into doing the boring of my beta, and I am going to do it..reasons to follow.
Parts are approx $500 that are needed. I went to my dealer and told the parts manager what I was doing and he offered to cut me a deal on the parts...total for me for the needed parts (oem pistons used) is $425. I've contacted stcharles auto just to check if they have better pricing on the parts.
Next, block disassembly..I feel comfortable doing this myself..have done it on other motors before, and have the shop manuals for the tibby..dosen't look too hard to do, time consuming, yes but not difficult..i'm part of a family of gearheads so I have access to the motor hoist etc..
I have a good friend who works at a very reputable machine shop (here in LA everyone has a machinist friend it seems LOL) He is doing the boring and dipping for $100. Re-assembly will be done mostly by myself, and the friends of mine that i'll call when i get stuck or need a cold soda wink .
My machinist said that his work would take a day or 2 at the absolute most.. depending on work load, and the fact that he has not done a beta motor yet, and always checks and re-checks a block the first time he does work on one.
So, 2 days of teardown (overestimating of course), 1 day of machining and cleanup, and 2 days for block assembly.
This is worth it for me as i believe that i have the skills needed for tear down + assembly, so that will save bout $500 bucks there, it will take me longer of course but its still 500 dollars saved. This work sounds a lot more appealing when you are looking at 5-600 dollars instead of a grand, yes its only .1 liter and 3-5 HP or so, but the work will effect most if not all other mods done to the motor in the future..i'm getting all giggly thinking about what the future shall hold for the Shark-o-mine wink
Its late, and this has gotten quite long, so I leave yall now
Chris
I have looked into doing the boring of my beta, and I am going to do it..reasons to follow.
Parts are approx $500 that are needed. I went to my dealer and told the parts manager what I was doing and he offered to cut me a deal on the parts...total for me for the needed parts (oem pistons used) is $425. I've contacted stcharles auto just to check if they have better pricing on the parts.
Next, block disassembly..I feel comfortable doing this myself..have done it on other motors before, and have the shop manuals for the tibby..dosen't look too hard to do, time consuming, yes but not difficult..i'm part of a family of gearheads so I have access to the motor hoist etc..
I have a good friend who works at a very reputable machine shop (here in LA everyone has a machinist friend it seems LOL) He is doing the boring and dipping for $100. Re-assembly will be done mostly by myself, and the friends of mine that i'll call when i get stuck or need a cold soda wink .
My machinist said that his work would take a day or 2 at the absolute most.. depending on work load, and the fact that he has not done a beta motor yet, and always checks and re-checks a block the first time he does work on one.
So, 2 days of teardown (overestimating of course), 1 day of machining and cleanup, and 2 days for block assembly.
This is worth it for me as i believe that i have the skills needed for tear down + assembly, so that will save bout $500 bucks there, it will take me longer of course but its still 500 dollars saved. This work sounds a lot more appealing when you are looking at 5-600 dollars instead of a grand, yes its only .1 liter and 3-5 HP or so, but the work will effect most if not all other mods done to the motor in the future..i'm getting all giggly thinking about what the future shall hold for the Shark-o-mine wink
Its late, and this has gotten quite long, so I leave yall now
Chris