Mad-Machine

Just out of curiosity... I keep hearing about the idle bypass being in the TB.. can it be removed and blocked off?

Just a gentle warning to Ham and Cyber... knock off the attacks, ok?

Dmitry

Dyno in Ukraine is $15-20

If I had a 65mm TB I would dyno it with no problem.

hamhead

Not going to continue arguing, but read through my post all the way so you can see how the velocity isn't going to change... the air is going to have right around the same amount of turbulence. tongue.gif

I'll keep a lookout for one on EBay for you Dimi... the only pain is having to get it shipped to Ukraine.

REDZMAN

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad-Machine @ Apr 17 2005, 02:11 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Just out of curiosity... I keep hearing about the idle bypass being in the TB.. can it be removed and blocked off?
<div align='right'><{POST_SNAPBACK}></div></div>

Not really, I mean, how would you? It's a passage forged into the damned TB. You'd have to put something in there and I'd be too worried it could come out and into your engine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hamhead @ Apr 17 2005, 07:42 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Not going to continue arguing, but read through my post all the way so you can see how the velocity isn't going to change... the air is going to have right around the same amount of turbulence. tongue.gif
<div align='right'><{POST_SNAPBACK}></div></div>

Again, Hamhead, talking out your ass. Velocity DOES change. Why don't we put 70MM BBTB's on N/A cars? Because the air slows down so much you lose power. Why do Koreans insist on short ram intakes? They belive the shorter the pipe, the higher the velocity. Why do BBTB's have velocity stacks? Why do most aftermarket IM's? Velocity and turbulence are NOT the same man. Velocity is SPEED. Turbulence is "tumbling" air, or unstable flow of air. They have nothing to do with eachother. In small turbo apps, you'll see smaller diameter turbo charge piping. Why? To keep the air moving FASTER.

faithofadragon

the throttle body i got wont work
which is ok yes its a mustang tb but its from a 2004 V6
which is a 3.8 not the 4.6 like random said would work
the v6 is a 60mm
i bought it to see if i can adapt it but it looks like it isnt going to work without welding shut the Idle passage

i do plan on testing it on a different hyundai model ninja.gif

oh and to those guys that say you shouldnt use a 65mm i have to say this

the SVO 2.3 tauras uses the same throttle body as the gt 4.6

01tibby

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (REDZMAN @ Apr 17 2005, 10:19 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'>In small turbo apps, you'll see smaller diameter turbo charge piping. Why? To keep the air moving FASTER.</div>
eh, not really. smaller charge piping is to keep the pressure up. air velocity is a mute point when you have pressure above atmospheric. if you have a certain aount of pressure, and then increase the volume, you will lose a bunch of that pressure.

but the rest is right, air velocity is important. same goes with the exhaust side, which is why you do need backpressure.

hamhead

^^ Correcto.

Didn't mean they were the same thing, velocity and turbulence are related. The smoother the transit of air, the higher the velocity. Which is why you see port-matching and everything else done on the intake/exhaust side.

The throttle body is a very small, but intricate part. I haven't seen anyone concerned about the length of a CAI @ 75mm... yet a few inches of 65mm to better help match the intake manifold/CAI brings up so much debate.

REDZMAN

^^^
Wrong again mang, everyone has talked about the CAI size. ABQELANTRA had a 3 inch intake on his Elantra when I met him. We put a 2.75 on there and there was a BIG difference in power.


Tibby01, look at the alpine kit man, TINY pipes. Pressure and velocity are directly related when it comes to air man. Turbulence and velocity aren't. Well, in a manner they are. TURBULENT air is slower, as it's energy is used up in moving in more than one direction.

hamhead

Yeah, that was the point I was making about turbulent air. tongue.gif At least we finally got that part of it straight. lol.gif I never saw those posts about the CAI... but still. The argument was whether or not a 65mm would show gains over stock... which compared to the stocker I believe it will as it better matches the Intake manifold to the intake itself. Which why you yourself are willing to try it. For the price for a used TB compared to one for $200-$300 more, I think its worth the money. I'm not arguing that a 65mm is going to show more gains than a 61mm which better suits the IM and for velocity's sake.

The reason the Alpine pipes are small is so the air doesn't lose its charge. In reality with intercooled turbos for instance, 8PSI at the turbo isn't going to be 8PSI at the engine because pressure is lost. Smaller pipes keep the pressure up, and yes, get that air to the chamber faster (hence your velocity argument).

I think that cleared everything up. wink1.gif

silvertibbs

Don't forget the point hamhead brought up about port matching. If you've got the 65mm BBTB and the Airram IM you've got the ability to shove a ton of air into the engine. But where does it go then??

Don't forget about the exhaust side of things. I don't know my aerodynamics (maybe someone should grab ArcticChill) but I know for sure that the car would run sluggish with a large IM and TB with nowhere to go afterwards.

As for the Turbulence vs. Velocity thing REDZMAN has a point Velocity has to slow down with the presence of Turbulence cause the air travels more, at least that's the way I look at it. Think of two cars going in a straight line and one swerves back and forth the entire time. The one car that goes straight will get to point B faster no? wink1.gif

So we've now got the perfect situation, 2.5" exhaust, 65mm TB, Airram IM, I think it will be sluggish at low speeds/rpms, and a monster higher in the rpm range. Obviously this is caused by the push/pull that happens naturally with the engine. We've talked about this a million times in regard to the 1.8L cam in a FI application. The boost escapes due to the extra duration. It's just the opposite with too large of a TB and IM. There is no velocity in this situation because the engine is starving for air.

Don't get me wrong, I'm neutral in this case. We need Ultra to get a dyno done up big time. He is the only one that I know of for sure that has all of these mods. I say we quit b****ing at start learnin'