Stuck On Fuel Pump Removal (help)
03-29-2008, 12:06 PM
#42
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Sorry about all the threads, It's just that the topic seemed so far off from where I started.
1) Anyway, I'll get the spark intensity figured out as soon as I know how to measure spark intensity! laugh.gif That's one thing I've never had to do.
2) I read that one bad injector robs power from the remaining injectors, not allowing them to fire. Is that true?
3) What are the figures for proper injector signals? Is that read while cranking or do you read continuity across them while not cranking?
4) Should I disconnect the fuel rail at the FPR?
1) Anyway, I'll get the spark intensity figured out as soon as I know how to measure spark intensity! laugh.gif That's one thing I've never had to do.
2) I read that one bad injector robs power from the remaining injectors, not allowing them to fire. Is that true?
3) What are the figures for proper injector signals? Is that read while cranking or do you read continuity across them while not cranking?
4) Should I disconnect the fuel rail at the FPR?
03-29-2008, 03:12 PM
#43
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Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
Take two 10mm bolts off the top where it bolts to the intake manifold. Pull it out with the injectors attached and have someone crank it. See if fuel sprays out the injectors at all.
03-30-2008, 12:59 PM
#44
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I've got spark to all 4 plugs and I'm getting fuel up to the rail. When I crank it, I smell unburned fuel from the exhaust. I seem to be eliminating some stuff which opens up new possible faults.
I had a 10a fuse under the hood that was blown, I swapped it out with no change. Not that I expected one.
Is it possible to shut my car off running perfectly then have it slip timing so bad that it wont start the very next morning? Wouldn't it slip and stay slipped, not fix itself TWICE? Remember that it ran crappy on startup two days in a row and corrected itself twice previous to the day it quit running.
I'm just trying to eliminate as many things as I can ya know?
I had a 10a fuse under the hood that was blown, I swapped it out with no change. Not that I expected one.
Is it possible to shut my car off running perfectly then have it slip timing so bad that it wont start the very next morning? Wouldn't it slip and stay slipped, not fix itself TWICE? Remember that it ran crappy on startup two days in a row and corrected itself twice previous to the day it quit running.
I'm just trying to eliminate as many things as I can ya know?
03-30-2008, 02:11 PM
#45
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OMG dude. I know you're frustrated, but you're not going about this logically.
There are 4 things an engine needs to start:
1)compression
2)air
3)fuel
4)spark
5 if you count a non-restricted exhaust, but at that it will still start, but not run long. You didn't verify compression.
Air probably isn't an issue since you didn't do anything, unless you sucked up a plastic bag in your intake.
Fuel has not been verified, since you didn't check injector pulse width.
Spark has been verified... numerous times.
If your car has jumped time, then you won't get compression. If your car was running ok, then you shut it off an won't restart, then the belt could have had slack that was being kept up by the engine running. Then you turned the car off and now any slack in the timing belt is up for grabs on the next startup. That answers how it'll run one day then not. The tiburon ecu self learns as well, so it is *possible* that it could have learned around the slipped timing and retarded spark enough to where you might not have noticed it running bad. In other words, check compression.
Also, the CKP sensor could have been bad, but you replaced it. However, if you didn't verify you weren't getting a pulsing signal to the ecu from the CKP, you just tossed a CKP sensor at it for no logical reason.
http://www.rdtiburon.com/index.php?showtopic=25031
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/arte...iburon/img1.bmp
The first link gives you all ecu diagrams. The second shows you the one with the ckp sensor circuit. Get an led from radio shack, and solder on a paper clip to the anode and cathode. Use that to determine if you're getting pulse from the ckp to the ecu. You've verified spark. Now verify pulse width using a test light.
Also, check for massive vacuum leaks that could have sealed themselves when the engine warmed up.
There are 4 things an engine needs to start:
1)compression
2)air
3)fuel
4)spark
5 if you count a non-restricted exhaust, but at that it will still start, but not run long. You didn't verify compression.
Air probably isn't an issue since you didn't do anything, unless you sucked up a plastic bag in your intake.
Fuel has not been verified, since you didn't check injector pulse width.
Spark has been verified... numerous times.
If your car has jumped time, then you won't get compression. If your car was running ok, then you shut it off an won't restart, then the belt could have had slack that was being kept up by the engine running. Then you turned the car off and now any slack in the timing belt is up for grabs on the next startup. That answers how it'll run one day then not. The tiburon ecu self learns as well, so it is *possible* that it could have learned around the slipped timing and retarded spark enough to where you might not have noticed it running bad. In other words, check compression.
Also, the CKP sensor could have been bad, but you replaced it. However, if you didn't verify you weren't getting a pulsing signal to the ecu from the CKP, you just tossed a CKP sensor at it for no logical reason.
http://www.rdtiburon.com/index.php?showtopic=25031
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/arte...iburon/img1.bmp
The first link gives you all ecu diagrams. The second shows you the one with the ckp sensor circuit. Get an led from radio shack, and solder on a paper clip to the anode and cathode. Use that to determine if you're getting pulse from the ckp to the ecu. You've verified spark. Now verify pulse width using a test light.
Also, check for massive vacuum leaks that could have sealed themselves when the engine warmed up.
03-30-2008, 03:10 PM
#47
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I know, I know! I do that all the time and wast lots of money 'cause I'm impatient.
OK, I "get" the LED thing but where and how exactly do I stick the ends of the paperclips to read the signal BACK to the ECU? Do I skin the two wires a tiny bit to expose the wire or can I stick the ends in the connnection?
Do I need a compression gauge or is there a backyard way to do it on the cheap and fast (as in I'm driving stock, auto Taurus and I can't take it much longer!). Will pulling the plug and feeling a jet of air be enough or do I need to actually thread in a gauge?
Do you have a link or a quick run-down on checking the injector pulse width? One of the things I wanted to do today was ensure proper injector function but I can't seem to find a sure-fire Tiburon injector test method.
And thanks EVERYONE for the patience and help.
OK, I "get" the LED thing but where and how exactly do I stick the ends of the paperclips to read the signal BACK to the ECU? Do I skin the two wires a tiny bit to expose the wire or can I stick the ends in the connnection?
Do I need a compression gauge or is there a backyard way to do it on the cheap and fast (as in I'm driving stock, auto Taurus and I can't take it much longer!). Will pulling the plug and feeling a jet of air be enough or do I need to actually thread in a gauge?
Do you have a link or a quick run-down on checking the injector pulse width? One of the things I wanted to do today was ensure proper injector function but I can't seem to find a sure-fire Tiburon injector test method.
And thanks EVERYONE for the patience and help.
03-30-2008, 07:56 PM
#48
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just backprobe the connector on the ecu. Don't actually remove the connector. The reason I said LED was because it doesn't drop voltage like a test light does. On a ckp circuit, we're talking digital electronics here. Very small voltages.
The backyard way really won't work. You'll still get pulses and puffs with a gaping hole in one of the pistons. (not that I'm saying you do) Cheap compression gauge man. Autozone will probably lend you one.
A set of noid lights is the correct way for checking injector pulse. You'd have to pop off the connector (pain in the ass) and plug in the noid light, then watch for the blinky blinky when it turns over. Since you don't have noid lights, you can use a test light. For this, you can just back-probe these connectors. First, verify that there is power at each of the red/white wires. Then switch the test light clamp to the positive side of the battery, and check that there is a pulsing ground to the other wires when starting the car (blinky blinky).
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/arte...iburon/img2.bmp
The injectors are shown at the top left on that page.
fing02.gif
The backyard way really won't work. You'll still get pulses and puffs with a gaping hole in one of the pistons. (not that I'm saying you do) Cheap compression gauge man. Autozone will probably lend you one.
A set of noid lights is the correct way for checking injector pulse. You'd have to pop off the connector (pain in the ass) and plug in the noid light, then watch for the blinky blinky when it turns over. Since you don't have noid lights, you can use a test light. For this, you can just back-probe these connectors. First, verify that there is power at each of the red/white wires. Then switch the test light clamp to the positive side of the battery, and check that there is a pulsing ground to the other wires when starting the car (blinky blinky).
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/arte...iburon/img2.bmp
The injectors are shown at the top left on that page.
fing02.gif
03-30-2008, 08:07 PM
#49
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Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
You could get a noid light also and test that they are indeed pulsing. That may be easier for you then pulling them off and keeping them on the rail. You should be able to borrow a compression gauge at autozone or something also.
03-31-2008, 10:16 AM
#50
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OK, I just got home with a new comp. gauge and an led. Weather here sucks so it'll take me some time to get out there.
I was told by the NAPA guy that it "could" be a coolant tep sensor gone bad and it NOT choking the engine when it's cold, not allowing it to start. Any chance of THAT being true?
I'm still going through with my tests as planned (with my very own gauge!).
I was told by the NAPA guy that it "could" be a coolant tep sensor gone bad and it NOT choking the engine when it's cold, not allowing it to start. Any chance of THAT being true?
I'm still going through with my tests as planned (with my very own gauge!).