Replacement Radiator Fans
07-12-2002, 08:15 AM
#21
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The stuff your talking about is like redline water wetter.
What it does is it lowers the surface tension of the coolant/water mix (or just water). This prevents (to a certian extent) air/steam bubbles forming in the coolant passages, and also ensures they don't stay in one place for long if they do form. It also reduces cavitation in the water pump impeller, allowing more coolant flow.
The disadvantage to running the fans all the time is three fold.
#1. Electrical draw. Pure and simple, dont waste electricicy in your car and make your alternator work any harder than it has to.
#2. Fan life. Each electrical motor only has a finite life. The more you run them, the faster they will burn out. they are NOT designed for 24x7 operation. They are desgined for short term (5-10 minute) operation at high speed. After 6+months running one of my two fans all the time, I can tell the difference in fan speed and fan noise between the two. I'm hoping FAL has a good warranty program, I expect it to die in the next 6-12 months. The other fan that only comes on when necessary spins much faster, and is much quieter...
#3. Overcooling of the radiator. In a perfect cooling system, the coolant would flow thorugh the radiator, drop in temp down to about 140 degrees, then flow into the engine, and heat up between 180 and 200 degrees, then flow back out to hit the radiator. This would be a *constant* flow of coolant doing this circuit. There would be a nice change rate of 50% hot coolant for 50% cool coolant.
In reality, the coolant in the radiator can be *overcooled* in that the coolant drops to near ambient tempatures. When it goes past the thermostat, the temp change from 180+ to say 70 or 80 degrees, is so sharp, it causes the thermostat to close prematurely. Then the water has to warm, and warm the thermostat to cause it to open again. While the thermostat is waiting to warm up and re-open, coolant temps can spike above 200 degrees. You end up flowing less cold coolant around the engine, at a lower change rate between hot and cold coolant.
A lower temp thermostat would allow the engine to stay cool, and keep the coolant levels cooler, and allow the engine to operate closer to the *ideal* 50/50 coolant exchange ratio.
it is possible to use a thermostat that is *too* cold. This doesn't allow the block to heat up to the right tempature, and you get poor combustion, and poor power delivery. I would only reccomend a low temp thermostat like a 160 for turbocharged folks in a hot climate. I would also only reccomend that for folks who are N/A in a cold environment (canada, alaska, MN, WI, ME, MI) to use a stock theromostat. Turbo folks might want to consider a 170, but I wouldn't go below 170, unless you change out the thermostat in winter.
What it does is it lowers the surface tension of the coolant/water mix (or just water). This prevents (to a certian extent) air/steam bubbles forming in the coolant passages, and also ensures they don't stay in one place for long if they do form. It also reduces cavitation in the water pump impeller, allowing more coolant flow.
The disadvantage to running the fans all the time is three fold.
#1. Electrical draw. Pure and simple, dont waste electricicy in your car and make your alternator work any harder than it has to.
#2. Fan life. Each electrical motor only has a finite life. The more you run them, the faster they will burn out. they are NOT designed for 24x7 operation. They are desgined for short term (5-10 minute) operation at high speed. After 6+months running one of my two fans all the time, I can tell the difference in fan speed and fan noise between the two. I'm hoping FAL has a good warranty program, I expect it to die in the next 6-12 months. The other fan that only comes on when necessary spins much faster, and is much quieter...
#3. Overcooling of the radiator. In a perfect cooling system, the coolant would flow thorugh the radiator, drop in temp down to about 140 degrees, then flow into the engine, and heat up between 180 and 200 degrees, then flow back out to hit the radiator. This would be a *constant* flow of coolant doing this circuit. There would be a nice change rate of 50% hot coolant for 50% cool coolant.
In reality, the coolant in the radiator can be *overcooled* in that the coolant drops to near ambient tempatures. When it goes past the thermostat, the temp change from 180+ to say 70 or 80 degrees, is so sharp, it causes the thermostat to close prematurely. Then the water has to warm, and warm the thermostat to cause it to open again. While the thermostat is waiting to warm up and re-open, coolant temps can spike above 200 degrees. You end up flowing less cold coolant around the engine, at a lower change rate between hot and cold coolant.
A lower temp thermostat would allow the engine to stay cool, and keep the coolant levels cooler, and allow the engine to operate closer to the *ideal* 50/50 coolant exchange ratio.
it is possible to use a thermostat that is *too* cold. This doesn't allow the block to heat up to the right tempature, and you get poor combustion, and poor power delivery. I would only reccomend a low temp thermostat like a 160 for turbocharged folks in a hot climate. I would also only reccomend that for folks who are N/A in a cold environment (canada, alaska, MN, WI, ME, MI) to use a stock theromostat. Turbo folks might want to consider a 170, but I wouldn't go below 170, unless you change out the thermostat in winter.
07-12-2002, 08:38 AM
#23
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QUOTE
Random:
The stuff your talking about is like redline water wetter.
What it does is it lowers the surface tension of the coolant/water mix (or just water). This prevents (to a certian extent) air/steam bubbles forming in the coolant passages, and also ensures they don't stay in one place for long if they do form. It also reduces cavitation in the water pump impeller, allowing more coolant flow.
So you don't have any bad reson why not to use the additive then?The stuff your talking about is like redline water wetter.
What it does is it lowers the surface tension of the coolant/water mix (or just water). This prevents (to a certian extent) air/steam bubbles forming in the coolant passages, and also ensures they don't stay in one place for long if they do form. It also reduces cavitation in the water pump impeller, allowing more coolant flow.
I guess its similar to the red line stuff can't remember the name off hand.
07-12-2002, 06:30 PM
#24
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No, there is no reason NOT to use a product like Red Line Watter Wetter. DEI also as a product similar to WW that is purple. Can't remember the name of it.
It just lowers the surface tension of water. That's all it does. It allows your cooling system to function more effectively. Just make sure you don't use WW with straight 100% water. Always add in at least 10% Coolant as corrosion protection for aluminum radiator bits and such.
I use WW in my engines. The thermostat prevents it from dropping your water temps the 20 degrees they advertise, but it does allow your cooling system to work better than using just water/coolant alone.
EDIT: added the word NOT. I apparently left it out when I first posted. My apologies.
It just lowers the surface tension of water. That's all it does. It allows your cooling system to function more effectively. Just make sure you don't use WW with straight 100% water. Always add in at least 10% Coolant as corrosion protection for aluminum radiator bits and such.
I use WW in my engines. The thermostat prevents it from dropping your water temps the 20 degrees they advertise, but it does allow your cooling system to work better than using just water/coolant alone.
EDIT: added the word NOT. I apparently left it out when I first posted. My apologies.
07-13-2002, 02:48 AM
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Randon that is the purpouse of using the disstilled water, because the stuff I am going to be using has the same ingredient as the main ingredient in Anti-freeze. I think its ethyl glycol or something like that. You use the distilled water because there is no minerals in it like standard tap water which is what actually will advance the corrosion process.
07-13-2002, 03:01 AM
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True, tap water has more minerals in it to cause corrosion to happen faster, and also minerals to leech out of the water and cause deposits to form, but distiled water also causes corossion. Anytime you mix aluminum (radiator) and water, you will get corossion. That is why you always add at least 10% coolant.