Couple random questions
05-10-2002, 12:02 PM
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Couple random questions
Just to clarify, I mean that I have an assortment of questions, not just questions for Random as that would've been a PM. Anyhow...
I forget the exact source, but I heard that your car will achieve a deeper tone as you increase the amount of torque in relation to HP. Basically a 104whp/90wtq car will have a higher pitch exhaust tone then say a 104whp/100wtq car. How much truth is there in this?
On a similar note, what is the best mod(s) to increase the torque to close the gap on HP?
I see a lot of people jumping on the SAFC train, but I wonder how many of them really need one. What would the MIN. mods be to get a worthwhile benefit out the SAFC?
I hear a lot of talk about people running Zex, NOS, and Nitrous Express... what about Venom? I saw that Random mentioned they would be soon getting a "loaner tib" for setup purposes. Has this happened yet, will it ever? heh
Aight, that should do it for now. I did some quick searching on these things, and didn't see them... but I'm not saying that it wasn't there so if it is, please don't jump my azz
Thanks
I forget the exact source, but I heard that your car will achieve a deeper tone as you increase the amount of torque in relation to HP. Basically a 104whp/90wtq car will have a higher pitch exhaust tone then say a 104whp/100wtq car. How much truth is there in this?
On a similar note, what is the best mod(s) to increase the torque to close the gap on HP?
I see a lot of people jumping on the SAFC train, but I wonder how many of them really need one. What would the MIN. mods be to get a worthwhile benefit out the SAFC?
I hear a lot of talk about people running Zex, NOS, and Nitrous Express... what about Venom? I saw that Random mentioned they would be soon getting a "loaner tib" for setup purposes. Has this happened yet, will it ever? heh
Aight, that should do it for now. I did some quick searching on these things, and didn't see them... but I'm not saying that it wasn't there so if it is, please don't jump my azz
Thanks
05-10-2002, 12:18 PM
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A nice way to increase torque is to put CAI, header, and exhaust. However, in order to benefit most from above modification, you also need to put BTB and BIM (better throttle response is really important).
Don't know the answer to your other question... ~~
Don't know the answer to your other question... ~~
05-10-2002, 12:31 PM
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Well BTB/BIM is happening really soon (top of list in the little circle heh) and I'll make a CAI with Choopi around then, or maybe just break down and get the SR.
H/E will come later (damned work, about to be in-between jobs)
H/E will come later (damned work, about to be in-between jobs)
05-10-2002, 11:46 PM
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to increase your tourque you need CAI/BBTB/BIM and cams. Thats the best way. Headers and exhaust will increase HP and torque but intake will do more torque.
as for the S-AFC, if you like prettyness go for it, but you need some serious mods before you can justify it. I'm getting mine tuned after I get FULL I/C/H/E setup. (just a BIM away).
You looking at a 8hp gain when tuned and better fuel mileage.
as for the S-AFC, if you like prettyness go for it, but you need some serious mods before you can justify it. I'm getting mine tuned after I get FULL I/C/H/E setup. (just a BIM away).
You looking at a 8hp gain when tuned and better fuel mileage.
05-11-2002, 12:41 AM
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Vehicle: Lancer Evo IX
The best way to increase torque and HP is to...dammit!
*grabs paddles and defribs cylinder heads, IM, TB, Exhaust manifold, cams, valves, mid pipe and end pipe, together with intake*
BREATHE DAMN YOU! BREATHE MORE!!!!!
Okie, thats about the way to get more torque...make all these things breathe better and be sure you don't run too lean in the process...
*grabs paddles and defribs cylinder heads, IM, TB, Exhaust manifold, cams, valves, mid pipe and end pipe, together with intake*
BREATHE DAMN YOU! BREATHE MORE!!!!!
Okie, thats about the way to get more torque...make all these things breathe better and be sure you don't run too lean in the process...
05-11-2002, 01:28 AM
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Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
Exaust "tone" has nothing to do with torque output. It is a by product of:
RPM
Cylinder size
exhaust valve design
exhaust port design
header design
exhaust system design
and choice in muffer.
You can get a deep, low sounding muffler like a magnaflow, or a high toned muffler like the Apex-i N1, however, changing any of the above variables will also change the sound "tone".
To a certian extent the "theory" is correct in Tone vs HP and torque. The classic example is the Civic Si motor. at 1.6L, using Vtec, it has no torque. However it does have 160 HP. The reason for the low torque is short rod length. The Si motor has a short stroke. However, that short stroke allows it to spin to 8000 RPM...thus the high RPM raises the TONE of the exahust, as does the smaller cylinder size.
Using the tibby motor. We have a LONG stroke. at 2000/2500 RPM we are making 110/115 Ft. Lbs of torque to the wheels. However the long stroke (and HLA's) Limit our top RPM, so we only make 120/125 HP to the wheels. (In addition to other factors such as increased frictional loses for a long stroke engine).
A long stroke engine will always make more torque than a short stroke motor.
To increase torque down low, you actually want mods that somewhat restrict air flow to get low RPM air velocity up. A 3" CAI won't show gains till after 4000+ RPM. a 2.5" CAI won't show gains till after 3500+, a 2.25" CAI won't show gains till after 3000+. You need a 2" CAI to show gains at 2500 RPM. The problem is, a CAI that small becomes a restriction at around 4500, and starts to LOWER HP and Torque aboove 4500.
BTB/BIM do nothing for low end. Again, since they are removing restriction, they are only helping top end.
Mild cams might help the low end, but I have not seen any dyno's of any of the cams out there to back that up.
The 4-2-1 header and a 2.25" exahust would be your best bet to increase torque on the low end.
RPM
Cylinder size
exhaust valve design
exhaust port design
header design
exhaust system design
and choice in muffer.
You can get a deep, low sounding muffler like a magnaflow, or a high toned muffler like the Apex-i N1, however, changing any of the above variables will also change the sound "tone".
To a certian extent the "theory" is correct in Tone vs HP and torque. The classic example is the Civic Si motor. at 1.6L, using Vtec, it has no torque. However it does have 160 HP. The reason for the low torque is short rod length. The Si motor has a short stroke. However, that short stroke allows it to spin to 8000 RPM...thus the high RPM raises the TONE of the exahust, as does the smaller cylinder size.
Using the tibby motor. We have a LONG stroke. at 2000/2500 RPM we are making 110/115 Ft. Lbs of torque to the wheels. However the long stroke (and HLA's) Limit our top RPM, so we only make 120/125 HP to the wheels. (In addition to other factors such as increased frictional loses for a long stroke engine).
A long stroke engine will always make more torque than a short stroke motor.
To increase torque down low, you actually want mods that somewhat restrict air flow to get low RPM air velocity up. A 3" CAI won't show gains till after 4000+ RPM. a 2.5" CAI won't show gains till after 3500+, a 2.25" CAI won't show gains till after 3000+. You need a 2" CAI to show gains at 2500 RPM. The problem is, a CAI that small becomes a restriction at around 4500, and starts to LOWER HP and Torque aboove 4500.
BTB/BIM do nothing for low end. Again, since they are removing restriction, they are only helping top end.
Mild cams might help the low end, but I have not seen any dyno's of any of the cams out there to back that up.
The 4-2-1 header and a 2.25" exahust would be your best bet to increase torque on the low end.
05-12-2002, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE
Random:
To increase torque down low, you actually want mods that somewhat restrict air flow to get low RPM air velocity up. A 3" CAI won't show gains till after 4000+ RPM. a 2.5" CAI won't show gains till after 3500+, a 2.25" CAI won't show gains till after 3000+. You need a 2" CAI to show gains at 2500 RPM. The problem is, a CAI that small becomes a restriction at around 4500, and starts to LOWER HP and Torque aboove 4500.
Random with this in mind what would happen if you added say a flapper type gate in the CAI.To increase torque down low, you actually want mods that somewhat restrict air flow to get low RPM air velocity up. A 3" CAI won't show gains till after 4000+ RPM. a 2.5" CAI won't show gains till after 3500+, a 2.25" CAI won't show gains till after 3000+. You need a 2" CAI to show gains at 2500 RPM. The problem is, a CAI that small becomes a restriction at around 4500, and starts to LOWER HP and Torque aboove 4500.
Say you adjusted it that at 4000RPM it was fully open but say at 2500 only half. This would give you some restriction in the low end but let the top end breath.
You may have issues with Aerodynamics but would the benefit be there.
ThanX of and I hijact the thread My bad.
05-12-2002, 11:45 PM
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Vehicle: Lancer Evo IX
Uhhh dude somthing like that dont go in the CAI, it goes in the exhaust near the muffler to regulate backpressure and vacuum draw from the negative pressure space behind the car as it moves through the air...
05-12-2002, 11:58 PM
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In regards to the SAFC... If I had a CAI of some sort (probably RS for now), BTB/BIM, and GT cam... would I be able to see any sort of gains from the SAFC? I know that I would see more after doing the exhaust, but would i see ANYTHING without it? If so, about how much.. anyone know?